745 point SM command squad viable?

[honersstodnt]

OK, my next army (after aurora 7th company) will be aurora 6th company :)

both are reserve squads, but the 6th is a company trained for deployment on bikes. so, i'm wondering JUST how viable a big badass biker squad would be.... here's what it would look like -

Captain on bike (relic blade, stormshield, digital weapons, space marine bike) - 205 points

Chaplain on bike (crozius, digital weapons, space marine bike) - 145 points

Command Squad -

Veteran on bike (Melta gun, thunder hammer, stormshield) - 96 points
Veteran on bike (Melta gun, thunder hammer, stormshield) - 96 points
Veteran on bike (Melta gun, lightning claw, stormshield, Chapter Banner) - 96 points
Champion on bike (Melta gun, power sword, bolt pistol, stormshield) - 66 points
Apothecary on bike (narcethium) - 41 points

total points cost - 745 points


yea, its insanely expensive. but what you get, is the ability to kill anything, survive anything, and be amazing.

on the charge, you'd have

4 relic blade swings @ I5
8 power weapon swings @I4
3 lightning claw swings @I4
6 thunder hammer swings

all re-rollable to hit.... PLUS the ability to fry any enemy armor with ease.

[Gnomesbane]

In a 1500 point game that squad is half your army. Never a wise choice to put that many eggs in one basket. Sure that aspect will be strong, but the rest of your army won't have much of anything.

[AdmiralBrutus]

I agree. Even in 2000 points, that may be an aawesome unit, but it's only the HQ slots. You're going to need very basic Tac Squads to even consider having more than 4 units on the board, and since this is a bike army, cheap they won't be. I'd say forgoe the command squad all together and simple stick each of the HQs on a standard bike squad, and maybe add some Scout Bikers for the fun of it.

[Tarion'Maseth]

The Storm Shields make it viable, maybe.

3++, and a 4+ FNP is pretty tough. In fact, its Eldar Seer-council levels of nasty.

Actually, thinking about it, it is beautiful. Massive damage output, can take a "fair" amount of damage (Against Bolters and the like, they're only as tough as Plague Marines).

I'd try to find some way to do it cheaper, but you really need the Hammers, and the Shields go without saying.

Perhaps take a leaf out of the Nob Bikers strategy:

Captain, Bike @135
Command Squad, 4 Storm Shields, 1 Thunderhammer, 1 Fist, 2 Meltas @340

Captain, Bike @135
Command Squad, 4 Storm Shields, 1 Thunderhammer, 1 Fist, 2 Meltas @340

That's two thirds of your army, but it can take on anything in the game. It's got the anti-tank it needs, and a lot of attacks (12 twin-linked bolter shots, or 8 and 2 meltas, depending on your target, 5 Power weapon attacks, 9 regular attacks, 4 S8 attacks)

If you want, you can throw in power weapons for the other Vets, but I'm not sure how necessary it would be to be honest.

EDIT: I've been thinking, and you know what really hurts? Regular infantry, with a lot of guns. It only takes a couple of squads of Space Marines rapid-firing to knock off a couple of your men. And once that happens, the squad starts to struggle.

[honersstodnt]

the problem is that nob bikers all have 2 wounds each... which is what makes it a viable strategy. SM do not, so each failed save is a horrible horrible loss. damn overpowered nob bikers ><

[Tarion'Maseth]

the problem is that nob bikers all have 2 wounds each... which is what makes it a viable strategy. SM do not, so each failed save is a horrible horrible loss. damn overpowered nob bikers ><
Which is why my suggestion was to go for as many wounds as possible. You're actually in a better situation than Nobs versus Lascannons and the like. It's the little things that cause pain :P

[honersstodnt]

meh, a squad of space marines rapid firing into my squad would cause ~ 20 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 20 * 2/9 = 40 / 9 wounds, which would turn into 40 / 9 * 1/3 * 2/4 dead, or 40 / 9 *2 / 12, or 80 / 108 dead.

so about an 80% chance that they will kill one single space marine. factoring in meltas or plasmas would change it, but only slightly (because I still get a 3+ invul save). I can deal with that... then figure that the squad rapid firing will be totally dead next turn :)

[Tarion'Maseth]

meh, a squad of space marines rapid firing into my squad would cause ~ 20 * 2/3 * 1/3 = 20 * 2/9 = 40 / 9 wounds, which would turn into 40 / 9 * 1/3 * 2/4 dead, or 40 / 9 *2 / 12, or 80 / 108 dead.

so about an 80% chance that they will kill one single space marine. factoring in meltas or plasmas would change it, but only slightly (because I still get a 3+ invul save). I can deal with that... then figure that the squad rapid firing will be totally dead next turn :)
The problem is, you've got 750 points of Marines. Yes, comparing it to 160 points, you come off well. But if the opponent has a Mech army, you'll find 3 squads of Marines jumping out of Rhinos and rapid-firing your squad and taking out ~2.5 Marines (Oh, and they might have Flamers, which puts the damage right up). After that, you lose a fair bit of your punch, particularly if your Apoth. dies.

[Eldar_Corsair]

try it out on vassal, see how it turns out. end the debate

[RustyKnight]

One game doesn't prove anything.

That is a hard unit, but it's a huge point total. The enemy can focus all his firepower on it and not be afraid.

[Steele]

Which, if you have other units, can pick them off while they try to take care of the bike squad.
It's what I do when I DS my terminators, :P

[Durandal]

Which, if you have other units, can pick them off while they try to take care of the bike squad.
It's what I do when I DS my terminators, :P
does your one termi squad constitute 1/2 of your armies' points?

[Steele]

No, it's the cheap 200, which, is still a big chunk of mine, :eek:
I saved myself from two turns of shooting & a turn of assaulting when I DS'd them behind two Guard platoons, tore havoc the next turn when I assaulted/shot with my Tacticals, :twisted: