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Zawicki
5th July 2009, 17:37
crap I just got internet access too

Morior
8th July 2009, 14:53
Come on people, seriously? BUMP BUMP BUMP! You know when a game is going down the pan when dead players have to post to try to remind people its still going.
Its been nearly 2 weeks since a 'living' player last posted ffs

Treehugger
8th July 2009, 15:42
Holy crap I thought this was still in the night phase for some reason. I compleatly forgot that it went into a day phase.

Ok so the night phase, I think what happened is Zawi didnt send in someone to 'divert' the kill to (apparently he lost internet connections). Looks like it at least since he died plus someone else did also, which fits what he ws claiming.

Honestly Im kind of going in the dark here but im looking at Grotfang. Dont think he participated in the last vote phase (with a vote), which strikes me. The reason is that when he posted there were already two votes on EC (an innocent) and only 1 on anyone else (my vote on Tom). So at that point if he were mafia there would be no reason for him to place a vote at all since it would be pretty clear that an innocent would be lynched so theres no reason to get involved.
Then he made his "appology" to Lance, which is what got me looking at him. It just seems like too much of a "oh look at me im an innocent and so sorry we lynched an innocent" type statement. When everyone knows that mis-lynching is part of the game and nothing personal.

I know its kind of a weak argument, but its the best I can come up with right now. And we need some kind of activity to get the game going again. So

Vote Grotfang

Grotfang
8th July 2009, 16:42
im looking at Grotfang. Dont think he participated in the last vote phase (with a vote), which strikes me.

I explained that my reasons for lack of posting were that I wasn't around to post:


I'm really sorry I have been offline for so long. I have been away from home (unexpectedly) for a few days and I had not planned for it at all!

The reason why I apologised to Lance was because I was the most outspoken person who wanted him lynched and may well have been a key reason for his "death". I was wrong and I wanted him to realise that I hadn't targetted him for any other reason than a mistaken hunch/feeling which ultimately proved to be disastrously misled.

With five of us remaining and with a firm belief that shotcoder is innocent, I am going to suppose that of Pox, Treehugger and Baragash we have one, maybe two mafia.

What makes me suspicious is that in this whole game Pox has made one actually serious post (on page 11 for those who are interested), one semi-serious post (on page 12) and a grand total of 3 (maybe 4, not going to double check) posts saying he's thinking/going to read more/had thought but was going to vote for Morior after he was killed. He is yet to make a vote.

Vote: Pox

Treehugger
8th July 2009, 16:58
I had noticed his inactivity but didnt realize it was quite that bad. But thinking back on it I think you are right. I had chalked his seeming inactivity up to him not being used to the way mafia games have apparently changed since he played last (went from mostly simi-random voting to now where we try to look in depth at things before voting). Thats something to consider though.

Pox
8th July 2009, 19:20
With five of us remaining and with a firm belief that shotcoder is innocent, I am going to suppose that of Pox, Treehugger and Baragash we have one, maybe two mafia.

What makes me suspicious is that in this whole game Pox has made one actually serious post (on page 11 for those who are interested), one semi-serious post (on page 12) and a grand total of 3 (maybe 4, not going to double check) posts saying he's thinking/going to read more/had thought but was going to vote for Morior after he was killed. He is yet to make a vote.

Vote: Pox

Well this game has had me stumped pretty much all the way through to be honest - i have tried to be active and keep track of what is going on but some of the roles have been so damn odd that other people not just me have been a bit :smt017 indeed one role (can't remember off the top of my head - what was it? like hidden sadist? seemed so bizare as a pro-town role that they was voted off on that basis alone) I've tried to make at least one post per day phase (which is probably more then the other mafia games i've been in recently :? ) If i was to vote for someone for inactivity then perhaps i would vote Baragash but that would be cheap considering that he has limited internet connection at the moment and his sign kinda qualifies this.

Due to the innane nature of this mafia game in particular all links are pretty tenious (unless someone wants to claim a detective role which is kinda sorely needed) And it is obvious that at least their is one more mafia (as it is highly unlikely that their is too roles like Zawicki's) I doubt their is more because that could be 2 night kills per night phase which would end a MINI-mafia game pretty damn quick.

I suppose i should learn from past mistakes and post "serious" and long posts about in-depth discussions of pointless arbitrary intellectual masturbation in a rather exciting exercise of fruitlessness simply to keep my post count high thus my vote count low - but don't really have the time for that kind of activity any more. (oh yes the irony of this statement is not lost on me for this post.)

Thus gonna vote for Grotfang not because i have a "Serious" lead, or some other "intellectual" reason but simply because he voted for me. Now this does leave him with 2 votes which is a bit problematic but i doubt any mafia worth their salt (And thus got this far?) will put a last vote down as that would be suspicious and a half. Without any detectives, or long standing voting patterns (only really best used in big sized mafia games) i am at least in the dark and completly unashamed to admit it.

Vote:Grotfang

Baragash
8th July 2009, 19:57
Time to put a theory to the test....[/mysterious]

Vote: Grotfang

Tarion
8th July 2009, 20:33
Grotfang, 3: Baragash, Treehugger, Pox
Pox, 1: Grotfang


Grotfang has been lynched. He was a New Londoner.

It is now Night4.

Tarion
9th July 2009, 09:15
And Shotcoder, the last innocent is also dead.

I give you your winners,

Baragash and Treehugger of the New Croyden Crims and Mozric and Pox of the New Redbridge Reavers

LanceWarrior
9th July 2009, 09:17
Wait - there was two groups - and overall the town only took out one!

DAMN!

Tarion
9th July 2009, 09:19
Wait - there was two groups - and overall the town only took out one!

DAMN!
Oh yes. I was surprised. I figured the lack of co-ordination would be their doom, but they managed just fine.

And, to everyone interested, Zawickis role was as simple as could be - He had to kill someone each night. No redirection or anything like that. He just had the good fortune to choose the same target as the Mafia two nights in a row. :lol:

Mozric
9th July 2009, 09:47
Yaaaaaaaaay, we won!

I did work out that there were two anti-town groups and that our victories were compatible. Didn't think it'd happen though.
Kudos to Pox for making it through for the win.
>:( for Baragash and Treehugger for killing me night 2.
but then again the two of them could have easily killed off Pox instead of Grotfang, so I guess it's all right.

I was pretty sure that Sub was mafia, tbh.

Can we have a list of roles, Tarion?

Tarion
9th July 2009, 09:52
Yaaaaaaaaay, we won!

I did work out that there were two anti-town groups and that our victories were compatible. Didn't think it'd happen though.
Kudos to Pox for making it through for the win.
>:( for Baragash and Treehugger for killing me night 2.
but then again the two of them could have easily killed off Pox instead of Grotfang, so I guess it's all right.

I was pretty sure that Sub was mafia, tbh.

Can we have a list of roles, Tarion?


New Redbridge Reavers – This gangwar got out of hand. You guys were just messing, competing to get the most loot. It all went horribly wrong. You and X are both members of one of the gangs of New London, and have walkie talkies, allowing you to communicate through the night via PM. Through clever hotwiring, you can cause one pod to vent. It will take all of the next night phase to cool the system down, and so this ability can only be used on an odd night (Nights 1, 3, 5 etc.)
You win when all the civilians have been killed.
You may communicate via PM’s during the night phase.
New Croydon Crims – This gangwar got out of hand. You guys were just messing, competing to get the most loot. It all went horribly wrong. You and X are both members of one of the gangs of New London, and have walkie talkies, allowing you to communicate through the night via PM. Through clever hotwiring, you can cause one pod to vent. It will take all of the next night phase to cool the system down, and so this ability can only be used on an even night (Nights 2, 4, 6 etc.) Night 0 is neither odd nor even.
You win when all the civilians have been killed.
You may communicate via PM’s during the night phase.

Overeager Vigilante – Oh damn. Your cell doesn’t look good. On one wall, there’s a map of each cell. A flickering monitor flashes a timer. At the bottom of the monitor lies a tattered, burnt manual. All the pages are damaged beyond reading, save 1.

“Should the countdown initiate, the station prepares to jettison a cell. You must choose a cell to jettison, and if you do not select one, your own will be chosen instead.”

You must choose one player to kill each night.
You win when justice has been served to the gang members.Zawicki


Priest – You are the priest to the area, and have dedicated your life to helping others. As such, you can never cast a vote that is the final vote to cause a lynch.
You win when justice has been served to the gang members.Tom206


Secret Sadist – You have a secret. You like to hurt people. You’re terrified people will find this out, and so keep to yourself whenever possible. However, you can’t resist some situations. You may only cast a vote if it is the final vote to cause a player to be lynched.
You win when justice has been served to the gang members.Lance

Pox
9th July 2009, 10:30
MWHA HA HA HA HA - awesome sauce - was beggining to worry that my whole "boo hoo hoo i don't know how to play mafia anymore - it's all so complicated, oh dear what is a poor townsperson like me to do - boo hoo hoo." defence was running thin.

figured their did have to be another group and glad was right :)

Morior
9th July 2009, 10:39
:)

Good game all, and congrats you mafia scum! :P

LanceWarrior
9th July 2009, 10:51
There was definately some different roles in this game - which I think to be honest worked against the town. No-one believed my role claim, and decided to lynch Zawicki because of his. I dare say if Tom had claimed he would also have been lynched because of his role claim - it would have been easy to say "Oh he's trying to make himself look less Mafia - Mafia will love to place lynching votes, so he must be Mafia" (or some other logic to that effect.

Subzero
9th July 2009, 10:59
Both Mafia groups winning together is a bit unfair. When you told me the roleset I thought that both groups won independently of the other. Oh well.

I knew my plan at the beginning was pretty unreliable but I wanted to try it out anyway. It did end up catching out someone who was playing in the interests of self-preservation by faking a roleclaim and then changing their claim multiple times...they just happened to be pro-town.

Tarion
9th July 2009, 11:41
Both Mafia groups winning together is a bit unfair. When you told me the roleset I thought that both groups won independently of the other. Oh well.I don't really see it making too much difference. With the groups not knowing who they were, and not being able to communicate at night, they couldn't co-ordinate.

Morior
9th July 2009, 11:45
Aye but even so, thats 4 mafia against 8 town, and they didnt need to kill their rivals to win :S

I thought the reason we were in the pods was because they were fighting and killing each other :P

Baragash
9th July 2009, 11:51
Aye but even so, thats 4 mafia against 8 town, and they didnt need to kill their rivals to win :S

I thought the reason we were in the pods was because they were fighting and killing each other :P

No opinion on balance, but we didn't know (and Tree and I never talked about) a joint win condition. We killed Moz specifically because we believed him to be Mafia.

Treehugger
9th July 2009, 13:45
Good game. I was a bit suprised that the two mafia groups could win at the same time. But in the end it wouldnt have made any difference since the kills would have fallen exactly the same as they did, it would have just been me and Bara lynching Pox in the final day.

I actually thought Zawi was mafia once he claimed. Since each mafia group could only kill every other night I was sure that what he was doing was trying to do was make it obvious to my group that he was mafia while not tiping off the town. Since he was claiming to of killed someone that we sent the kill in on.

Mozric
10th July 2009, 03:34
You really thought I was mafia? -__- Maybe I need to play more subtly. I thought you'd just killed me because I was starting shit.

And Baragash

You win when all the civilians have been killed.
C'mon!

Actually that would have worked quite well. If somebody claimed odd-numbered day vigilante, that'd tip off the other mafia team. If we were both clever we could have claimed this:
Pox: Odd Numbered compulsive Vigilante
Mozric: odd Numbered Cop
Treehugger: even numbered compulsive Vigilante
Baragash: Even numbered Cop

Cross confirming each other ftw!
Probably would have got us all killed, but oh well, I was trying to think of ways in which the mafia could subtly ally.


Subzero: I actually suspected that this was a game where a lot of people had post restrictions when you started doing your thing. I was ready to roleclaim that I had to change my vote every post (if you look I unvoted and revoted somebody else every post until it was clear you were faking it). Didn't roleclaim in the end because you caught out Lance. So, yeah, if Morior hadn't have been silly enough to lie about his role when he was pro-town, you might have caught a mafia out of it.

Subzero
10th July 2009, 08:06
was beggining to worry that my whole "boo hoo hoo i don't know how to play mafia anymore - it's all so complicated, oh dear what is a poor townsperson like me to do - boo hoo hoo." defence was running thin.I think that probably happened somewhere around Day 2/3, as people were explaining things to you. You probably shouldn't have made the post where you said "I had this HUGE argument but then I noticed that, oh dear, Morior was innocent!".

Mozzie: rather than odd/even Compulsive Vigs it would be better to claim Docs, given that there's another Vig in the game, but other than that such a plan would probably have won the game if done properly.

Tarion: fair point, they couldn't co-ordinate well.

Baragash
10th July 2009, 08:29
You really thought I was mafia? -__- Maybe I need to play more subtly. I thought you'd just killed me because I was starting shit.

And Baragash

You win when all the civilians have been killed.
C'mon!

I guess both Tree and I assumed that as we weren't the same group we were opposed to each other.......must learn to read the fine print :P

Grotfang
10th July 2009, 15:26
Really good game. Cheers, Tarion!

Did not see two mafia groups there... ouchies :-)

Tarion
10th July 2009, 20:12
What's everyone think of the two Mafia groups each with an alternating nights only kill ability? I'm still unsure as to whether its a bit weak.

LanceWarrior
10th July 2009, 20:22
What's everyone think of the two Mafia groups each with an alternating nights only kill ability? I'm still unsure as to whether its a bit weak.

I think it's fair. In a mini mafia with 2 mafia groups (who are able to win at the same time) one kill per night is fair.

Maybe in a full size mafia with only one mafia group able to win, both being able to night kill each night would be alright.

Treehugger
10th July 2009, 20:35
IMO The alternating nights is fine, and I saw as a balancing factor actually. Since it could have easily come out with the town lynching one mafioso and the second mafia killing the other off in the night. Now you have a mafia who can only kill every other night. So its a liability, hence balancing in a way.

Tarion
10th July 2009, 20:36
IMO The alternating nights is fine, and I saw as a balancing factor actually. Since it could have easily come out with the town lynching one mafioso and the second mafia killing the other off in the night. Now you have a mafia who can only kill every other night. So its a liability, hence balancing in a way.
Yeah, I was actually worried it was too much the other way, really.

The 2 sets of Mafia means its really taking away the mafia/town split (Informed/Uninformed), as the Mafia are only marginally more informed than the Town.

Mozric
12th July 2009, 05:40
Nah, it's pretty good. A team of two mafia still have a decent chance of winning in a 12 player game. If anything I'd want to make the town stronger here.
I would have expected the town to uncover and kill two mafia, then struggle with the last two. Looks fairly balanced.
The town never got a chance to figure out there were two mafia groups, though.

Subzero
12th July 2009, 07:29
I guessed it early on actually (the thing you thought made me Mafia) but I didn't guess that they were working together.

As Mozzie said, the town probably needed to be a little stronger here - when you sent me the roleset and I thought the Mafia groups were opposed it seemed balanced because although there were 4 anti-town players they were split into 2 opposing factions that would be trying to kill each other as well. In the actual version the town had things a bit harder, given the unreliability of the Compulsive Vigilante role.