[Mini Mafia 14] Spacestation Slaughter - [End Game]

[Tarion]

On the UNSS Sol (IV), all was normal. The sprawling space station, on which the human population of the Sol system had migrated too following the death of Sol III, functioned much like a traditional city, just on a much, much vaster scale. Where before, millions of people had been crammed together, now billions lived, back to back.

This is not a story of the untold billions however. In a small section of the station, dubbed ‘New London’ by its inhabitants, warfare was on the verge of breaking out. A gang war had escalated to the level of bloodshed, for the first time since the station’s launch and the Captain was very excited. The never-before-tried emergency systems had kicked in, sealing the people nearby the bloodshed into their own little pods, and holding them at the outside of the station so they can be dealt with later.

You are one of those trapped like this. In your pod is a computer terminal, with a set of instructions attached. It seems to be running some sort of chat room. The instructions inform you that you were selected as witnesses and suspects, due to proximity. You must select those guilty of wrongdoing, so they can be vented into space. You may confer with the other witnesses through the chatroom.

Rules

Shamelessly lifted from Treehugger, with some things removed (Most for saving time. They're all fairly standard. The exception is the quoting what I tell you. Go nuts with it.) Mostly common sense guys - It's no-one's first game.

The night phases will be 48 hours long. Day phases will be at most 7 days long. Warnings will be posted before the deadline.

If someone hasn't been lynched by the deadline the player with the most votes will be lynched. If more than one person has the highest number of votes then the day will continue until one person has more than the other(s), unless one of the people has gone inactive and then that person will be lynched (in other words dont go inactive).

Lynches will require a full majority (More than 50%).

Lynches occure the moment the last required vote is cast, you can not go back and unvote after that point.

You may ask for a vote count in the thread at any time (within reason) and I will post it.

The game will begin on Night 0.

There is no private communication between players unless specifically stated that you are allowed to in your role PM.

2.) Pox
4.) Baragash
9.) Treehugger

12.) Morior was vented into space by common consent in Day 1.
7.) Subzero was vented in Night 1 through a technical malfunction.
5.) LanceWarrior was vented by common consent in Day 2.
1.) Mozric was vented in Night 2 through a technical malfunction.
6.) Enigmacookie was vented by common consent in Day 3.
3.) tom206 was vented through a technical malfunction in Night 3.
10.) Zawicki was vented through a technical malfunction in Night 3.
8.) Grotfang was vented by common consent in Day 4.
11.) Shotcoder was vented by a technical malfunction in Night 4.

[Pox]

Pox not playted much mafia recently - yeah chuck us in.

[The Tommunist]

and me

[Baragash]

Inzz0r!

[Mozric]

Yaaaaay! Sounds cool.

[LanceWarrior]

Let's be in. Moz's just ended so that should free me up.

[Enigmacookie]

Inzor

[Subzero]

In like a zombie getting into a special forces soldier's skull.

[Grotfang]

Looks like I'm the first lynch in Treehugger's game, which means the only other game I am in is an intro one :D

In!

[Tarion]

Wow, this is filling up quicker than a fat kid in a cakestore.

I love it :D

[Treehugger]

In before the forums go down again and a pre-emptive
VOTE Andy

[Enigmacookie]

(Vote: Andy)

[Tarion]

Anyone else in?

[Subzero]

By the way, something I thought should probably start being done in Mafia games is that all roles with the capability to communicate at night should also be able to do so for the first 48 hours of the first day phase.

[Grotfang]

I like that idea. Especially as communication is more frequently becoming an important part of mod considerations when designing games. Gives an opportunity to actually collect yourself as a team.

[Zawicki]

I'll join in, I'm in small town small world, but that's moving pretty slow right now. And post up some rules just so we are all clear (can anyone pm anyone, etc.)

[Tarion]

post up some rules just so we are all clear (can anyone pm anyone, etc.)It's coming, chill :P

Will try to throw it in tonight, if possible. If not, tomorrow sometime. Before we start, for sure.

[Subzero]

I'm in small town small world, but that's moving pretty slow right now.:( Man why you gotta hate on me (just kidding, my game's gone halfway already and Tree has just replaced in for an inactive player so we should have a higher level of activity for the second half of the game).

[Treehugger]

I'm in small town small world, but that's moving pretty slow right now.:( Man why you gotta hate on me (just kidding, my game's gone halfway already and Tree has just replaced in for an inactive player so we should have a higher level of activity for the second half of the game).
Oh so your saying I talk to much? Thats it Unvote Andy Vote Sub ;P show you
hehe jk

[Subzero]

No, I'm saying that you're one of the more active players on the site.

[Treehugger]

I know i was just messing with you ;D

[Tarion]

Vote: Treehugger for messing :P

[Mozric]

If this is a game where you can kill the mod I'm so killing you for killing Subzero in Dreamworld.

Vote: Tarion


Only 2 more spots!

[shotcoder]

I'll play

[Tarion]

If this is a game where you can kill the mod I'm so killing you for killing Subzero in Dreamworld.

Vote: Tarion


Only 2 more spots!

My best moment. :D

And welcome Shot :)

[Morior]

IN!!! I've not got anything else to do, was just killed out of the other 2 games I was in

[Tarion]

IN!!! I've not got anything else to do, was just killed out of the other 2 games I was in
I know the feeling.

Should be ready to go tomorrow morning. :D

[Pox]

*get's busy painting a bullseye on his back*

[Grotfang]

*Helps Pox paint a bullseye on his back*

[Tarion]

Role PM's have been sent.

It is currently Night 0. Night 0 will last around 40 hours (Final ending to be established later)

[Tarion]

Game should start within the next 24 hours. It may be a bit delayed - There's at least 2 people who have yet to receive their PMs (Not been online yet)

[Tarion]

With a mechanical *click* the machinery in your pods whirs to life.

"It is now time to review the evidence. Witnesses, who committed these vile murders? Choose your perp."

It is now Day 1. You have up to 170 hours to make a decision. 7 are required for a lynch.

[Morior]

So are we given evidence, or is that just a fancy way of saying "RANDOM FINGER POINTING STAGE GO GO GO!"?

[Baragash]

"RANDOM FINGER POINTING STAGE GO GO GO!"?

^This

Vote: Morior

See?

:P

[Morior]

Now thats not fair!!!
Vote: Baragash

Cus he voted for me lulz

[Subzero]

Regular Innocent standing by.

Vote: Morior

Let's get a vote train going :/

[Morior]

*blubs* :smt010

[Pox]

whoa? nobody died in night phase 0? correct me if i am wrong but in mafia games don't people usually die at night time?

[Baragash]

It's just a way to start the game thematically, read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of Post 1, it all went to hell, now we've got to identify whoever started the bloodshed.

[Treehugger]

whoa? nobody died in night phase 0? correct me if i am wrong but in mafia games don't people usually die at night time?
Pox knows too much about mafia games!
Vote Pox

[Subzero]

I now need one complete endgame-nullifying transcript.

Unvote

Vote: Treehugger

:/

[Grotfang]

It's just a way to start the game thematically, read the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of Post 1, it all went to hell, now we've got to identify whoever started the bloodshed.

That is true, and I agree that not all mafia games have to start with a mafia kill... but the game did start on night 0 and there were 40 hrs given to it, which makes me wonder whether or not anyone was allowed any night actions last night, and if so, were the mafia prevented from doing so as well, or did they just forget?

Anyhoos, we won't find out the answer until end-game, so in the interim:

Vote: Subzero

For vote-hopping! :wink:

[Subzero]

100% pure Innocent right here.

Unvote

Vote: Grotfang

[Zawicki]

Vote: Sub

He keeps changing his vote and shouting innocent. Seems mighty suspicious to me.

(I kinda like the way this game was setup, since we're supposed to be in a chat room, it makes the game seem a bit more realistic)

[Treehugger]

Unvote Pox
Vote Zawicki

he used ( ) which means that he was talking OOC (out of character) which by extrapolation means that the previous statements were IN CHARACTER, which means he was acting and didnt mean it which means he is trying to convince us that Lee Harvy Oswald was the loan gunman and Emelia Earhart was not a government spy! Hahaha i caught you out....um... my head hurts now.

[Subzero]

Vote: Sub

He keeps changing his vote and shouting innocent. Seems mighty suspicious to me.

(I kinda like the way this game was setup, since we're supposed to be in a chat room, it makes the game seem a bit more realistic)Sensenon. I can assure you that I am innocent.

Unvote

Vote: Treehugger

[Zawicki]

Unvote Pox
Vote Zawicki

he used ( ) which means that he was talking OOC (out of character) which by extrapolation means that the previous statements were IN CHARACTER, which means he was acting and didnt mean it which means he is trying to convince us that Lee Harvy Oswald was the loan gunman and Emelia Earhart was not a government spy! Hahaha i caught you out....um... my head hurts now.

He is obviously trying to preoccupy our minds with his loan gunman and emilia earhart story. Clearly with our minds destroyed by this story we won't be able to make a lynch, and so he will be able to defeat us all.

[Grotfang]

Sensenon. I can assure you that I am innocent.

Of course you can. So could the mafia!

Therefore...

Sub = mafia :o

[Morior]

Unvote: Baragash

Ok sub, your really confusing me :?
Why the claims to innocence on day 1?
Of course we're on the 'joke' stage still but I'm still like hmmm?!?

Oh I geddit! You wanna be lynched cos your exams are coming up :D

[Subzero]

Moocow.

Unvote

Vote: Moorior

[Baragash]

Looks to me like Sub can't post* without voting for the last person to vote or unvote....

*Or, something else is forcing him to post, but when he does so, he has to vote for the last person voting or unvoting. Could explain why we started with a Night phase, so someone could use their ability.....?

[Grotfang]

Hmm.

Unvote: Subzero

Could prove interesting. If this is the case, then the mafia would potentially have nabbed a double vote ability if they are careful...

[Morior]

I dont think that is the case, because there would be no way for sub to know that he had to vote for whoever last 'voted/unvoted' unless it was in his role PM.
Otherwise he wouldnt be posting his votes every single post he made. His vote would just automatically be added onto the last person to 'vote/unvote' at the end of the day phase.

I think this is just some form of a joke that it being blown waaaay out of proportion. Its still day 1, there isnt really any evidence to go on yet.

[Mozric]

Subzero appears to be pulling a Ritha! Next he'll be attaching paint images to his posts.

Vote: Shotcoder

Where is he?

[Pox]

Woah ok my head hurts can i have a vote count please! all this vote/unvote malarky is making me spin.

[The Tommunist]

vote: pox

his head hurts, but hes a minion of nurgle, impervious to pain.

[Enigmacookie]

Vote:Subzero

[shotcoder]

Subzero appears to be pulling a Ritha! Next he'll be attaching paint images to his posts.

Vote: Shotcoder

Where is he?

Sorry I forgot I was in a second game.

I think Baragash is correct, if he posts he has to vote for the person who voted before him.

[Baragash]

Well, he could easily just be messing with us, I'm not definitively backing my theory at this early stage.

@Enigma: vote - random or reason?

[LanceWarrior]

Sub is acting strange. That's my observation for now.

[Subzero]

No stranger than usual.

Unvote

Vote: LanceWarrior

[Baragash]

Hmmm....traffic a little slow.


@Enigma: vote - random or reason?

Unvote: Morior

Vote: Enigma

Incentive provided.

[Grotfang]

No stranger than usual.

Actually, a little stranger than normal, sub. Every time you have posted so far you have voted for the previous poster. You are a sensible player, so I can't imagine you would be deliberately confusing people and looking suspicious if you were a simple innocent, and your voting isn't really achieving any goal, as it is not based on any suspicions. The only possibilities are that you are either a player who is aiming to look suspicious, or a player who is being forced to do so.

Either way, I don't think it is too big a deal right now. I would be disappointed if you have a role that aims to be lynched, as those roles are generally simply annoying as opposed to interesting, but if you are being forced into this behaviour then it would be more beneficial to see how this pans out.

I'm just going to say sod it and vote for:

Vote: Enigmacookie

This game is starting slowly and I would rather we lynched someone deliberately than let the time limit force our hands. I realise EC has exams and therefore isn't posting as much, but all that means is there is as good a chance as anyone else that he is mafia.

[Enigmacookie]

Right, last exam done today :D

Anyways, unvote: Subzero
Was checking something whether he had to vote for whoever voted for him last. Now, though, it seems like he has to vote for whoever spoke before him. Hmmm...That could either mean:
1) His has to vote for the guy before him
2) He's playing with us. He wants us to believe that his role makes him act as in point 1, but in reality he is mafia.

Hmm, the way I see it, people were quick to assume that his role was some sort of mimic, and he might have picked up on that - assuming that people would believe him to be innocent.

I'm going to go ahead and (re)vote: Subzero

[Subzero]

Yo yo yo yo yo yo.

That's three yoyos, but they went out of style years ago.

Unvote

Vote: Enigmacookie


This game is starting slowly . . . but all that means is there is as good a chance as anyone else that he is mafia.Poor logic. Re: the first part, we've had approx. 2 pages of random voting followed by discussion in as many days. There's no danger of the deadline creeping up on us or discussion petering out. Re: the second, that's poor logic. 'Let's kill this guy now, because everyone has the same probability of being anti-town'.

Voting for people for arbitrary reasons such as that they're busy gives anti-town players an ironclad 'pro-town' reason to bandwagon lynch someone. It's not actually pro-town, but if you convince pro-town players to follow through with it you can deflect suspicion with their actions (as in 'well, dead innocent people x, y and z voted EC because he was busy on Day 1, so it doesn't say anything about me!').

[Grotfang]

Voting for people for arbitrary reasons such as that they're busy gives anti-town players an ironclad 'pro-town' reason to bandwagon lynch someone.

And voting for people simply because they were the last to post is better? Explain your voting please, sub and justify why it is any less random.

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Grotfang

Several people have mentioned good ideas already, about 3 times at least (including yourself). :/

In any case the point is that lynching people (by voting for them) for arbitrary reasons is a bad idea. You also decided to go for what was effectively the weakest part of my post and ignore the points regarding the deadline and the ability of anti-town players to camoflauge themselves in arbitrary lynches.

[Baragash]

One reason I have trouble seeing it as a "ploy" is that in order to affect a lynch, Sub has to:
Vote early by posting after his target, then not post again that day[/*:m:3bedd37d] Wait and post straight after someone when they're at L-1 or L-2[/*:m:3bedd37d] Keep posting like this for the whole game[/*:m:3bedd37d]

I think there is sufficient scope to catch him out.

[Grotfang]

Several people have mentioned good ideas already, about 3 times at least (including yourself). :/

...

You also decided to go for what was effectively the weakest part of my post and ignore the points regarding the deadline and the ability of anti-town players to camoflauge themselves in arbitrary lynches.

Not at all sub. I completely agree with your points. I think I have made similar statements about a spectrum of suspicial vs 50/50 odds previously.

Unvote: Enigmacookie

The reason I targetted your "weakest" part was because I wanted you to confirm that you weren't just playing silly buggers with us regarding your posting and it is in either your role or in a night action someone targetted you with. Of course you could be lying to look more pro-town (ie. "it isn't my fault; someone is making me do it; therefore I am pro-town") but for now I think in my eyes you are slightly less suspicious.

The trouble is that at the moment whatever is going on with your posting has meant we have gone from the joke voting stage to trying to work out what is happening to you. No-one else has really popped up in terms of suspicion in my eyes (beyond yourself who I am ignoring for the time being). Therefore currently, as far as I am concerned, there really is ~50% chance that anyone else could be mafia.

EDIT (Nothing taken away, simply added in response to Baragash)

The danger is that if he is imposing it on himself, then he doesn't have to keep it up all game. Any excuse could be provided for it, such as targetted for particular day phases, etc. If it is part of his role, then that could be a little different, but is jester-like in my eyes and therefore not very interesting and makes him more beneficial to lynch. There is only really one or two conditions when I think this behaviour could be useful for the town and I will wait a few more days before discussing them. Whatever happens, I don't think sub is a good one to lynch yet.

[Treehugger]

I think that its fairly obvious that one of two things is going on with Sub right now:
1) Either as people have said he has to vote for the person who posted before him or
2) He is trying to make it look that way

If 1 is true then im guessing there is a statement in his PM which specifically forbids him from saying if this is true or not.
Im unsure on this point atm. On the one hand it seems a fairly obvious handicap to the town to have that type role so i can believe it. But on the other hand I can believe that Sub would come up with that type of role on his own especially considering the setting of the game (internet Troll or something like that), and if he wanted to pull that type of deception off he would have to do it from the start.

Unvote whover my last joke vote was on
Vote Grot

While I am unsure of Sub and not ruling out a deception it seems a bit odd to hound someone for an answer that you yourself have already given.

Add to respond to posts:

The trouble is that at the moment whatever is going on with your posting has meant we have gone from the joke voting stage to trying to work out what is happening to you. No-one else has really popped up in terms of suspicion in my eyes
Grot most of the time discussions tend to follow one track at a time, so its not really a *problem* that it went from joke votes to talking about Sub. From here it will likely travel to another point and go from there one at a time. Though I think we can safely say we are moving out of joke votes and into real votes now, which is good.

I agree with Bara on the point that there is ample time to catch sub out on the issue if its a ploy. I think the truth will come out here one way or another in later phases and Sub always adds to games so voting him right now isnt something im prepared to do.

[Grotfang]

it seems a bit odd to hound someone for an answer that you yourself have already given.

I didn't voice an answer; I have no more knowledge about sub's role or whatever than anyone else. I voiced a suspicion and wanted sub to either say it was in the right ballpark or that he was just fooling around.

It's not uncommon for people in mafia to ask other players for confirmation of certain suspicions, so I'm not sure why you feel me doing so warrants a vote. Still. I'm sure it makes sense. Maybe I should just stay quiet in future and keep my suspicions to myself.

[LanceWarrior]

I agree Sub is acting strangely, but I do think that it would be a rather strange ploy were he Mafia or a rather strange role if he was Mafia.

I dunno what to think of Grotfang but I can't vote him anyway - something is stopping me...

[Morior]

From reading over subs posts. If he is being forced to vote for whoever last voted. This would look like he has a 'paranoid' role.
I've seen it used before a very long time several years ago on another forum. But only once.
However, if someone is paranoid. There can only be 2 win conditions:
1) They are infact pro town, but due to their paranoia, they cannot vote for anyone in particular, and automatically sides with the last person to vote.
2) They are on their own, A neutral role. Where everyone else is against them, and they only win if they survive the game.

As subzero is possibly the most experienced mafia player on the forums, I dont think he would be drawing particular attention to himself without good reason, so I either believe that he is being forced, or because we have almost branded him as having such a role, he is just going with it. Unfortunately I dont believe he would be playing on it unless he had something to benefit from people believing that his role is a 'paranoid' person.

Just thinking here, the only way I can see night kills occuring is if someone has a hacker role, (not the role 'hacker') but someone that can hack into the pod's system and manually flush a player into space.

I've lost my train of thought now damn it... I was actually gonna go somewhere with that. Will post it up if I remember

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Morior

Your point there about the 'hacker' role seems a little too specific. Would you care to explain it?

[Morior]

I mean strictly fluff speaking.
If we are all cased in individual pods, we all have access to a computer (how we can communicate with each other)
But we are infact trapped within our individual pods, so it is actually physically impossible for someone to perform a night kill, unless it is through the computer, therefore, they must have some additional ability to manipulate computer systems. and eject a pod of their choice (in order to perform the night kill). But if they have the ability to do that, its within reason that they have the ability to perform other tasks such as watching people.

I imagine that there would also be some sort of doctor role, but it would be worded differently. Perhaps someone who can halt any attempts of a hack upon a certain pod each night.

Was just a thought really.

[Morior]

Oh and Vote:Lancewarrior

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Morior

I'll keep an eye on you, so keep an eye on me soon, and we'll all play eye spy for eye scream.

[Morior]

Oh trying to be tricky eh?
unvote: Lancewarrior
That was purely a test to see if Sub had to vote for the person above.

1) Now he had already voted for me, so why would he need to unvote before voting for me again? Unless he just saved himself time in having to say vote lancewarrior. So he technically could have voted for lance there, but unvoted to change it to me.

2) Or he has to vote for the person above him, regardless of if they vote or not. That would explain why he had to vote for me twice, as that has been the first time when the posts have went player,sub,player,sub. (being the same player of course)

Of course, there is always the chance that he is toying with us. And can vote for whoever he chooses, and is taking pleasure out of this.
Which I couldnt really see an innocent doing...

[Morior]

Ignore stage 1 in my last post, I thought we were trying to determine if he had to vote for the same target as the player above, but his previous posts already prove thats not the case.

[Zawicki]

Well, there could be a role who has a friend in mission control (arn't they the guys watching us type all these things and then they eject the pods, thats what I thought it was) and he has the friend kill someone.

Again, this is just talking fluff

[Treehugger]

I dunno what to think of Grotfang but I can't vote him anyway - something is stopping me...
Something interesting I saw as I was looking over the thread again. The first time I read this I took it as Lance saying that a gut feeling of his was keeping him from voting for Grot. However upon looking at the wording again more closely its possible that he is saying that he is being precluded by someones ability from voting for Grotfang.

[Grotfang]

upon looking at the wording again more closely its possible that he is saying that he is being precluded by someones ability from voting for Grotfang.

I read it as this. I call shenanigans!

[Mozric]

Unvote: Shotcoder

Vote: Lancewarrior

Yeah, what's the deal with that?

[LanceWarrior]

Let's think, what can stop a player voting - special role anyone?

[Tarion]

Hey guys - hit some laptop issues. Posting from my phone. Will be online from tonight or tomorrow morning. Hopefully, this won't delay anything

[Baragash]

Let's think, what can stop a player voting - special role anyone?

Eurgh.....

I'm not sure I see the logic in an early roleclaim, all it does is make you a target.

NINJA-ADDITION: unless you're saying you're under the effect of someone else's role.

[LanceWarrior]

Let's think, what can stop a player voting - special role anyone?

Eurgh.....

I'm not sure I see the logic in an early roleclaim, all it does is make you a target.

NINJA-ADDITION: unless you're saying you're under the effect of someone else's role.

It's to keep me from looking shady - I can only put a certain vote on somebody, so I either won't be voting or will just be killing people. Either way it don't look good.

[Grotfang]

I can only put a certain vote on somebody, so I either won't be voting or will just be killing people.

Sounds like he can only place the lynching vote... interesting.

[Treehugger]

Ok that is interesting, and different than what I was thinking he meant. If hes being honest with us I can certainly see why he wanted to claim early. Though to be honest if I were writing roles and put a role like that in it I would have thought long and hard about adding a statement saying that he cant tell people about it.

Reasoning is this. That role is a detrimental role to whatever side its on (because by its concept it is intended to make someone look suspicious). And allowing that person to claim releives some of that suspicion, and leaves you just with someone who cant really vote (thus limiting how much they can interact in the game).

Though at the same time it fits in with what Sub is passively claiming. Different types of roles that have different effects on voting. And that fits with the theme of playing a mafia game that is set in what basically is a mafia game on a space station ;D

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Treehugger

It might be the case that this is a game themed around vote-based roles. Does anyone else have anything they'd like to share?

[LanceWarrior]

My train of thought currently:

If Sub is pro-town, from his voting pattern it's a good guess to say he has a vote altering role, like myself.

So either the town has some insanely powerful role(s) or one of me or Sub is anti-town. I can be sure I am pro-town, so I have to say I'm slightly suspicious of Sub. Problem is I can't vote him :(

[Morior]

I dont really have much to go on except sub acting strange in voting for everyone who posts above him.

He's just noticed that we have latched onto the idea that he is forced to vote for the person before him.

I mean, he is clever and I dont believe he would put himself in the spotlight like this without having some elaborate plan, or by having something to gain from acting this way.

My gut instinct is telling me its an act so I'm going to have to Vote:Subzero

[Mozric]

Unvote: Subzero

Vote: Morior

It's fairly obvious that it's a role forcing him to do this.

[shotcoder]

I have to go with Moz on this one.

Vote Morior

You're using kind of skewed logic using the only information we have on someone to vote them off when obviously it is their role? Subzero doesn't mess with the Mafia metagame this much. So I have a feeling it's a role requirement and not a play style.

[Subzero]

Yo yo yo yo...

Unvote

Vote: Shotcoder

Currently suspicious of Mozzie (certainty in how I'm being manipulated), Shot (quickly following Mozzie in voting for Morior, whilst numerous people have voiced the same suspicion), Morior (slightly), Tree (for picking up on the relatively subtle thing with Lance and then using my role to justify its existence and validity) and Lance (possibly faking a claim based on my role, possibly not).

[insert obligatory second-guessing of the above list here]

[Morior]

Well, there could be a role who has a friend in mission control (arn't they the guys watching us type all these things and then they eject the pods, thats what I thought it was) and he has the friend kill someone.

I think its more likely that if someone had a friend in mission control, that person would then be immune to lynching, As who would honestly just sit there and watch their friend be flushed into space when your in charge of whats happening?

[Treehugger]

Can we get a vote count to see how things stand?
We have moved well out of joke votes so I think it appropriate to get a tally.

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Treehugger

Lance, what is your actual role name?

[LanceWarrior]

Lance, what is your actual role name?

Well Tarion calls it sadist.

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Lancewarrior

'Sadist', in the sense that you take pleasure in being the one to kill during the lynch, doesn't sound particularly pro-town. I don't want to make that too much of a factor in whether I vote for you or not, but it definitely doesn't help you.

Are there any other vote-altering roles? Might as well get them out of the way now rather than later.

I also wouldn't consider a role that can only place the lynching vote as that weak. It's a slight alteration to your voting pattern, but you can still talk about people that you find suspicious (which I note that you aren't particularly doing). The only issue arises around the deadline time.

[LanceWarrior]

I think I can say this, the rules in the first post seem to say I can. The idea is that I like hurting people but like to keep it under wraps. However when some is about to be lynched I can't control myself - or words to that effect.

And I have been talking of my suspicions - mainly my suspicions of yourself. You seem to have just ignored these. Making me more suspicous of you.

Just me feeling this?

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: LanceWarrior

Your only mentioned suspicion of me is that I was 'acting strange'. Everything else you've said regarding me has been neutral comments.

[LanceWarrior]

COUGH!COUGH!


My train of thought currently:

If Sub is pro-town, from his voting pattern it's a good guess to say he has a vote altering role, like myself.

So either the town has some insanely powerful role(s) or one of me or Sub is anti-town. I can be sure I am pro-town, so I have to say I'm slightly suspicious of Sub. Problem is I can't vote him :(

Neutral comments here, not at all stating what I would do if I could...

[Subzero]

Unvote

Vote: Lancewarrior

Saying that you're suspicious of me isn't a suspicion.

[LanceWarrior]

Unvote

Vote: Lancewarrior

Saying that you're suspicious of me isn't a suspicion.

Wait saying i'm suspicious of you and therefore have a suspicion of you, is not my having a suspicion...

Sub this is utter crap, and you really are not making any sense whatsoever.

[Morior]

:eek: WTF? *Moriors head bursts through confusion*

Unvote:Subzero
Vote:Zawicki

Yep, I have a vote altering role too, but its rather strange.
I made the mistake by joke voting baragash at the start and this has effected who I can actually vote for now.

[LanceWarrior]

Yep, I have a vote altering role too, but its rather strange.
I made the mistake by joke voting baragash at the start and this has effected who I can actually vote for now.

Care to explain - in the first post Tarion said we could actually quote what he said so, please elaborate.

[Morior]

Well I'm an Indecisive New Londoner

I can only keep my vote on 1 person for 48 hours, then my indecisive-ness forces me to choose another person.

[Zawicki]

Unvote

Vote: Lancewarrior

'Sadist', in the sense that you take pleasure in being the one to kill during the lynch, doesn't sound particularly pro-town. I don't want to make that too much of a factor in whether I vote for you or not, but it definitely doesn't help you.

Are there any other vote-altering roles? Might as well get them out of the way now rather than later.

I also wouldn't consider a role that can only place the lynching vote as that weak. It's a slight alteration to your voting pattern, but you can still talk about people that you find suspicious (which I note that you aren't particularly doing). The only issue arises around the deadline time.

Vote: Sub

You're asking if there are any vote altering roles, and yet you will not come out and say that you have one. This is extremely suspicious to me. Before this I was going to let your act pass for a few days. Now I think you have been trying to pull off an elaborate scheme. Also, you're asking for people to role claim on day, another thing that would be bad for the town. A mafia looking to make an easy nightkill, I think so.

[LanceWarrior]

Right so to sum it up, we have:

- Sub's role - we currently have no claim on alignment or role name; this appears to make him vote for the person who has just posted.
- Morior's role - Indecisive New Londoner; effectively he can only vote for one person for 48 hours at a time.
- My role - Sadist; the same as a lyncher role, meaning I can only place the lynching vote on somebody.

Now both me + Morior have claimed to be pro-town, so take those how you want. But if Morior is pro-town like myself then that's 2 roles which have voting limitations. I think it highly unlikely there is a third, which makes me think that either Sub is just playing or has his role - but either way I think he is mafioso.

At this moment in time i'm more inclined to believe Morior than Sub so, I shall once against repeat my suspicions of Subzero!!!

(Bolded and highlighted so Subzero realises that they are indeed suspicions)

[Morior]

I'm quite badly restricted due to my joke vote at the start, I can only vote for another 2 specific people this day phase. Assuming the day doesnt finish within the next 48 hours.

[Morior]

Sadist doesnt really sound like a pro town role though.

A sadist is someone who likes to inflict pain upon others.
And therefore I cant imagine it being pro town. I'm actually convinced that its not pro town.
My guess would be a neutral role. Not that my opinion matters here, I couldnt vote for you if I wanted to anyway.

[Subzero]

Unvote

The role names don't quite match up though, do they? 'Sadist' should be 'Sadistic New Londoner' or 'Indecisive New Londoner' should be...something else. I can't think of a word for an indecisive person off of the top of my head, but surely there are synonyms...

Zawicki: I was asking for vote-altering roles in the vein of the one I was faking, not all roles, so your accusation that I was asking for all roles to claim is a baseless lie. The reason i was acting as I did was to draw out potential role-fakers. I'm currently suspicious of:

Morior - rolename doesn't match with Lance's, claimed late in the day after two calls for weakened vote-based roles to claim, discussion with Zawicki about role flavour seemed too in-depth.

Lance - rolename doesn't match Morior's and doesn't sound pro-town (plus my rolename is blahblah New Londoner, but the Mafia might have a town role PM example so this doesn't make Morior pro-town). Continually voicing weak suspicions of me (e.g. saying that I'm more suspicious than Morior, despite having acted overtly in the same manner throughout the day and verified people's thoughts whilst Morior's very recent claim is of a subtler role).

Mozzie - stated strongly that he felt I was 'clearly' being affected by another role, voted for Morior on that basis (possibly as a distancing tactic from a fellow Mafioso if Morior is Mafia, not guaranteed) but several people voiced similar thoughts to Morior and weren't voted for.

Tree - for 'picking up' on Lance's very soft claim and then using it to promote the idea that the game must be based around voting methods, thereby making Lance seem more innocent.

I'm going to go ahead and
Vote: Lancewarrior
right now.

[Baragash]

Lance - rolename doesn't match Morior's and doesn't sound pro-town (plus my rolename is blahblah New Londoner, but the Mafia might have a town role PM example so this doesn't make Morior pro-town). Continually voicing weak suspicions of me (e.g. saying that I'm more suspicious than Morior, despite having acted overtly in the same manner throughout the day and verified people's thoughts whilst Morior's very recent claim is of a subtler role).

I totally agree with this part, and on that basis am also going to
Vote: Lancewarrior

[Morior]

The role names don't quite match up though, do they? 'Sadist' should be 'Sadistic New Londoner' or 'Indecisive New Londoner' should be...something else. I can't think of a word for an indecisive person off of the top of my head, but surely there are synonyms...

I cant imagine the role names matching, as I dont believe 'sadist' to be a pro town role.

My discussion about the role flavour is just to try to put things into persective. I love my fluffs, and I'll be a bit disapointed if it doesnt tie together lol. If everyone is contained in a pod, how on earth are you ment to perform a night kill?

[Mozric]

Oooh, interesting, Sub was just pretending to have the role to catch out bad roleclaims. How clever.

Unvote: Morior

Vote: Lancewarrior


Defense of self and general look at Subzero:


Mozzie - stated strongly that he felt I was 'clearly' being affected by another role [1], voted for Morior on that basis [2] (possibly as a distancing tactic from a fellow Mafioso if Morior is Mafia, not guaranteed [3]) but several people voiced similar thoughts to Morior and weren't voted for [4].

1) I was getting annoyed at people still wondering what it was that you were doing. You obviously either had a posting restriction role (vote for the person above you) or were pretending that way.
2) I've been trying to keep my votes moving, especially this early in the game. Makes more of an impact than just saying that "I'm kinda suspicous of x"
3) ??? c'mon, you know that that's just crazy over-the-top let's-create-suspicion-of-mozric-because-we-can talk.
4) I just picked somebody. Maybe I misread his post, but it looked like he was wondering about the same point after he'd already said that it looks like you had a posting restriction.


Anyway, I agree with Sub's list of suspicions (except for Me), but let's not forget that he could be mafia. I'm a little suspicious of him because I think that the reasons for his suspicions of me are fairly dodgy, and it's possible that he's trying to lead the discussion, making a list in order to lead the discussion so that there's no time for suspicion to fall on him.

But overall Sub seems fairly clear. For the moment I'm more worried about those on his list than the man himself. Just putting this out there so that people don't forget about the terrifying possibility of the EVIL SUB.

[Grotfang]

Lots of posts, lots of posts...

So, sub, if I read this correctly you were faking a role to see if anyone would jump on the idea of having similar abilities; assuming that the people who would do such a thing would have roles they may not otherwise wish to reveal? I like your style! I honestly believed you had a restriction of some description.

I'm not sure what this demonstrates, though. Unfortunately there is still the possibility that you are mafia and this is just a ruse to make yourself appear pro-town by doing some "investigative" work. In addition, it is possible that there really is a "voting restriction" theme to this game that we were hitherto unaware of and that you have been lucky enough to hit on. Finally, there is no real way to prove that you are pro-town using the information so far (although I know you probably realise this already; not a problem per se, just wanted to point it out). Lynching Lancewarrior is tempting, as I agree he looks a little bad from this, but it doesn't tell us much about your role.

However, sub has made himself pretty open to criticism by doing this and sadist does seem an unlikely name for a pro-town role. Not impossible, but unlikely. And unlikely makes him worth voting for in my opinion.

Vote: Lancewarrior

By the way, just a pet peeve, but if you are roleclaiming, I think we can assume you are going to be claiming a pro-town role. Therefore, please don't highlight it green unless directly quoting a PM. It confuses things for me and in my eyes makes me more suspicious of you. Remember, mafia can be made green too, but it doesn't make it a pro-town role.

[LanceWarrior]

Why would the Mafia be given a lyncher role? But I'm ok with dieing, I presume it should help discover who's the Mafiosos.

[Subzero]

Suspicious of Grot and Braa in this thread.

Still not liking the arguments Mozzie's giving.

Lastly, Lance is right, if he turns out to be innocent I wouldn't doubt that there is at least one Mafioso in the players currently voting for him (excluding myself, obviously :/). That means Mozzie or Grot (I'd go ahead and put Morior on the list as well, at a lower priority). On a separate note, I know it's probably a mistake on your part but 'Lyncher' is a completely separate role to what you've got ('Actor').

Regarding Grot, I don't particularly like the way he's casting doubt on me as if I should naturally be more suspicious now than any of the other people whose roles are unknown. He seems to be the most likely candidate for being a
Mafioso tomorrow if Lance turns out to be innocent (because he can turn around and say that it's obviously my fault that Lance died).

Lastly lastly: Morior has currently voted for Baragash, me, Lance and Zawicki. However, he has claimed above that there are only 2 more players that he can vote for. There's also the fact that his role is very convenient for the Mafia to claim. He can just vote for a fellow Mafioso early on in the day, switch votes later on and then say 'oh well I'd love to vote for X with the rest of you but I can't' if that player ever appears suspicious.

[Grotfang]

I don't particularly like the way he's casting doubt on me as if I should naturally be more suspicious now than any of the other people whose roles are unknown.

I never said that you were more suspicious and I do not think it. All I said is that we know little more about your alignment now than we did before posting began.

[Morior]

Lastly lastly: Morior has currently voted for Baragash, me, Lance and Zawicki. However, he has claimed above that there are only 2 more players that he can vote for. There's also the fact that his role is very convenient for the Mafia to claim. He can just vote for a fellow Mafioso early on in the day, switch votes later on and then say 'oh well I'd love to vote for X with the rest of you but I can't' if that player ever appears suspicious.

Oh its technically only 1 more person, as I can either vote for shotcoder or myself :?
I dont actually have a choice who I can put the votes on, as I have to pick them in order

[Grotfang]

I dont actually have a choice who I can put the votes on, as I have to pick them in order

Can you give a little more detail here? What is the order you can vote in and how does the mechanic of the role work? You have to change your vote every 48 hrs and you don't have a choice as to who you vote for? It does seem a little odd.

[Morior]

I'm supposed to be paranoid of everyone, So I have to switch my vote at least every 48 hours but I can only do so to people below the last person on the list (who I voted for)(see front page)
As you can see I'm the last person on the list so If I vote to little, I dont get to the person who I wanted to vote for. If I vote too much, I end up having to vote for myself.
At the end of each day phase it gets reset, so I can start from the top of the list. My joke vote on bara at the start made me lose out on 3 potential vote switches.

[Enigmacookie]

I'm supposed to be paranoid of everyone, So I have to switch my vote at least every 48 hours but I can only do so to people below the last person on the list (who I voted for)(see front page)
As you can see I'm the last person on the list so If I vote to little, I dont get to the person who I wanted to vote for. If I vote too much, I end up having to vote for myself.
At the end of each day phase it gets reset, so I can start from the top of the list. My joke vote on bara at the start made me lose out on 3 potential vote switches.

Sorry, but there is something fishy about this....why would you joke vote on Bara, when that clearly meant you could not vote for the 3 people above him? With your role, it would not be advisable to joke vote at all...

Hmm...

Vote: Morior
For now. He might have picked up on Subs little game, and thought that he could disguise himself behind a vote specific role as well.

[Morior]

Sorry, but there is something fishy about this....why would you joke vote on Bara, when that clearly meant you could not vote for the 3 people above him? With your role, it would not be advisable to joke vote at all...

Because I wasnt thinking clearly, and seen as it was day 1, your mainly just going on randomness until you have evidence to build up on. Which I havent seen happening on day 1 before.
I assumed that it didnt matter who I voted for because its normally a random person who's kicked off then anyway.

I pretty much voted for bara without thinking, as you can see my post was only 4 minutes behind his, so I wasnt really thinking at the time.

[Grotfang]

I pretty much voted for bara without thinking, as you can see my post was only 4 minutes behind his, so I wasnt really thinking at the time.

I don't buy it. You would have read your role PM. If I had a role like that the last thing I would want to do in the first couple of days (real life days, not in-game days) would be to vote, as it wastes the opportunity to choose a target.

This sounds an awful lot like it could have been contrived.

[Morior]

Well of course it sounds dodgey, but why would I come out with a story that sounds as if its been made up? That would just draw unnessissary attention towards myself.

[LanceWarrior]

Lastly, Lance is right, if he turns out to be innocent I wouldn't doubt that there is at least one Mafioso in the players currently voting for him (excluding myself, obviously :/). That means Mozzie or Grot (I'd go ahead and put Morior on the list as well, at a lower priority). On a separate note, I know it's probably a mistake on your part but 'Lyncher' is a completely separate role to what you've got ('Actor')

Oh yeah - just checked that mafia information flash thing, and apparently the role is called Actor - I just call it lyncher because to me it makes more sense.


Well of course it sounds dodgey, but why would I come out with a story that sounds as if its been made up? That would just draw unnessissary attention towards myself.

I dunno, ask Subzero. But you may do it because you believe people may believe you and therefore think that you are not suspicious.

[Subzero]

You've been revealing information very slowly (why did you need to not mention the second restriction - that you could only vote for people below the last player voted for - until now?) and your vote for Zawicki doesn't make much sense. He hadn't said anything recently before you voted and the vote itself seemed relatively random. Coincidentally it just so happens to force you to vote for another player. Now you're saying that the flaws in your claims make them more valid.

Unvote

Vote: Morior

Your role claim seems unnecessarily contrived to fit this situation, and your actions do not follow a sensible use of the role. It also seems like a very strange role to have - you've unvoted and not had a vote on people before, so what exactly would be the problem with not voting until you absolutely have to? Why would you unnecessarily force yourself into a specific pattern of voting that you could break at any time by unvoting, and why would you randomly vote for Zawicki, a move that completely restricts who you can vote for for no reason?

[Morior]

Oh well, seems like everyones picking holes in my logic, I just figured it would be a bit better for the town if they realised the game was based on vote-relating roles. I'll probably end up having to do this anyway so:

Unvote
Vote:Morior

[Tarion]

I'm back. I'll be posting a votecount later.

[Tarion]

Morior (4): Morior, Subzero, Enigmacookie, Shotcoder,
Lancewarrior (3): Grotfang, Mozric, Baragash,
Subzero (1): Zawicki,
Pox (1): Tom206,
Grotfang (1): Treehugger,

Not Voting: Pox, LanceWarrior

Minimum votes necessary to lynch: 3

[Pox]

You guys have lost me here - has mafia really become this complex? we got roles that maybe can only vote for the previous poster, roles that can only vote once every 48 hours - we got Morior voting for himself thus meaning he is top of the lynch pile and Subzero claiming, counter-claiming and it's only Day 1! DAY ONE PEOPLE this is the day where everyone just guesses makes fun of the game and generally votes willy nilly until some sort of vote-train catches on just to end the day phase.

untill i can re-read this thread (and perhaps the mafia information thread also at this rate) i'm gonna

Vote: Abstain

Abstain, a real vote - the distinction to me seems completly arbitrary at this point.

[Grotfang]

You guys have lost me here - has mafia really become this complex? we got roles that maybe can only vote for the previous poster, roles that can only vote once every 48 hours - we got Morior voting for himself thus meaning he is top of the lynch pile and Subzero claiming, counter-claiming and it's only Day 1! DAY ONE PEOPLE this is the day where everyone just guesses makes fun of the game and generally votes willy nilly until some sort of vote-train catches on just to end the day phase.

Actually, it often ends up with the timer running out and someone being lynched on a majority of 3 or so; this way there is interesting stuff going on at least and people are posting and voting seriously.

It's not that complicated when you break it down. Sub faked having to vote for the previous poster, so that can be ignored for now. Lance claimed a role of "Sadist" which is different from the standard pro-town PM that defines us as "New Londoner", which in my eyes makes him different (I'm not changing my vote, by the way. Morior looks suspicious, but Sadist is, to me, obviously not pro-town) and Morior is claiming to have a restriction on his voting that he conveniently didn't take into account on his very first vote (almost immediately after reading his role PM).

I don't understand this switch to Morior. Lance Warrior has said he is a SADIST. The pro-town standard PM tells us:


You are a New Londoner, you win when justice has been served to the gang members.

(Skipped the fluff). Sadist is clearly not New Londoner. Therefore, I reckon he is most likely to be anti-town.

[Zawicki]

Umm, I don't think that the fact sub did the whole fakeing thing can be ignored. For all we know something could have been effecting him, and now it isn't effecting him.

Anyways, for now I'll Unvote: Sub

Because I could see him doing something like that. I still think he is suspicious though.

I could see how morior would have forgotten about his role restrictions. Maybe he thought that since it's day one, it wouldn't really matter anyway.

Lancewarrior is somewhat suspicious because of the name of his role. But seeing as my role doesn't have "New Londoner" in it, I can see it being a real role.

[Mozric]

hmmm, I don't like this. All this claiming and counter-claiming based on the role name and some really weird posting restrictions. I don't doubt that Tarion could have some very strange roles in here... but, yes, Morior's claims are looking more and more contrived.

I'm going to keep my vote on Lancewarrior for the moment.

[Subzero]

Not liking Grot's use of the pro-town role PM here. Given that quoting is allowed it seems that the Mafia would probably have been given examples of pro-town role PMs (at least the basic Innocent one) thus making quoting PMs effectively a pointless gesture when you think about it rationally, and something that makes you seem pro-town.

I'm also going to go back on the whole 'blahblah New Londoner is reliable' thing, because we don't actually know that. I am a regular Innocent (not that such a claim means much), my rolename is New Londoner. But with two people now claiming to have rolenames that are not 'New Londoner' (Zawicki you're looking pretty suspicious) I don't think it's valid to assume that the format is what we thought it was. In other words, your defense of Morior is looking pretty bad. Same goes for Mozric. We can lynch the other claimed vote-based role later if need be, or a Vigilante can kill them.

Anyway, either way we should get some info on other players with the lynch of Lance or Morior. Currently I'd prefer Morior to be lynched though, because more people have possible connections to him (Mozzie and Grot, possibly) compared to Lance (Tree, mainly).

Yarr Pox, Mafia has gotten a bit more complicated in the way it's played since Normals 10-12. Rather than the Mafia Information Thread it would probably be a good idea to read some of the recent games (Small Town, Small World finished recently - I'd suggest reading that from page 2 onwards to see the kind of tactics that are used now).

[Treehugger]

Ok alots happened since i checked last. To me thats good, this is a great day 1 for exactly the reasons Pox didnt like. Theres more going on and this isnt as random as most day 1s are.

Ok Sub for the most part your faked role has been passed over in favor of other topics. But you know that it is going to be necessary to answer two questions.
1) Why did you fake it? What did you hope to gain from it?
2) Why did you decide to stop the charade?

Secondly why do you keep trying to tie me to Lance? You say it suspicious that I noticed something subtle in his roleclaim. Exactly how is that suspicious? Arent we SUPPOSED to notice things and comment on them? And your second point is that I made a connection between his claimed vote effecting role and your apparent vote effected role. Again arnt we supposed to be making connections like that? You seem awfully intent on making it sound like I put up some big defense of Lance and that strikes me as being odd, given that the truth is far more tenuous.

As for myself I am going to
Unvote Grot
Vote Morior

I dont believe your roleclaim, and the voting for yourself seems like a move of desperation to try and make people think your locked into this and are an innocent victim.

[Mozric]

Unvote: Lancewarrior

Well, Treehugger's vote puts Morior 2 away from lynch so I'm going to hold off for the moment. I kinda agree with Sub even though he's still being a dick to me for some reason :P
I don't want a lynch straight away though, want to see if Sub has any more to say... also it'd be good to hear from the more lurky players.
From a look at the player list it seems that Tom, EC and Shot haven't been posting much recently.

[shotcoder]

I haven't had much to say because I don't know how to combat this voting role frenzy. My role pm didn't contain said vote restrictions so I don't know what or how to see the people who say they have these voting restrictions. But I am eager to see justice served.

[Morior]

:? I thought I would be gone by now.

[LanceWarrior]

But I am eager to see justice served.

Interesting choice of words. But to whom?

And I'm going to post my entire Role PM when I next can, and the ensuing PM to Tarion to hopefully show you guys I am pro-town. Alas currently I'm iPoding it and there's no easy way to do it.

[Morior]

and the ensuing PM to Tarion to hopefully show you guys I am pro-town.

Hmmm... I dont see how you can really prove your pro town-ness. And I dont imagine tarion confirming anything. So anything you present to us could just be a random assortment of whatever information you decide to type up except in
Quote Brackets

[Enigmacookie]

Hmm, interesting that Grot would choose to willingly copy the exact wording in the role PM that quick...seems like it's a ploy to make himself seem more innocent to me. I don't think it's too far fetched that some mafia members might have info on role PM's, and thus may use the exact wording to convince other people that they are innocent.
I believe there is a reason why Tarion permitted us to copy-paste everything he said/says - and a mafia with knowledge about the exact wording of the role-PM's might be exactly that reason.

unvote: Morior
Vote: Grotfang

[LanceWarrior]

and the ensuing PM to Tarion to hopefully show you guys I am pro-town.

Hmmm... I dont see how you can really prove your pro town-ness. And I dont imagine tarion confirming anything. So anything you present to us could just be a random assortment of whatever information you decide to type up except in
Quote Brackets

Yes I understand. But I'm sure me and Tarion have different styles of writing so, hopefully it was suade some people.

Plus it's an easy to see through trick. There are only a few questions that the Mod can answer, so any players which have been mods (Treehugger, Mozric, Subzero) will be able to judge whether a mod would have answered like I will show.

@ EC: Didn't this game start on a night phase?

[Morior]

Yes I understand. But I'm sure me and Tarion have different styles of writing so, hopefully it was suade some people.

Thats not entirely accurate. If the moderator has worse grammar etc from you, then all you need to do is dumb down your language a bit. If they have better vocabulary, then you only have to look up a thesaurus.
So this method isnt accurate. (not that I'm implying you have bad grammar Tarion :P Just purely for examples sake)


Plus it's an easy to see through trick. There are only a few questions that the Mod can answer, so any players which have been mods (Treehugger, Mozric, Subzero) will be able to judge whether a mod would have answered like I will show.
Well yeah but its not Tarions job to answer questions in order for the answer to be posted publically. I know if I was modding and I knew that was going to happen, then I wouldnt even be giving a response, as it doesnt keep in the spirit of the game.

[shotcoder]

But I am eager to see justice served.

Interesting choice of words. But to whom?

And I'm going to post my entire Role PM when I next can, and the ensuing PM to Tarion to hopefully show you guys I am pro-town. Alas currently I'm iPoding it and there's no easy way to do it.

I know not who justice shall serve but that quote should suffice for this point in the game.

Unvote: Morior

I have no idea where to move from this point in the game. I almost posted my entire role pm but I don't want to give away any benefit the town has at the moment. And really the fluff portion of the role pm Grot posted is the only real addition I would have for that.

[Grotfang]

Hmm, interesting that Grot would choose to willingly copy the exact wording in the role PM that quick

Given Tarion's rule on being able to post PMs publically, I thought it was pretty obvious that we won't be able to reliably use them in the game to back people's claims up. I posted the quotation purely to back up what I was saying about the fact that there is an obvious discrepancy between the role "sadist" and "New Londoner". Clearly I am the only one left who thinks that is something worth chasing up.

Yes. Obviously there are two ways I could know that PM. I'm a) an innocent, or b) mafia. Given that we all are aware of how useless using these PMs will be in terms of proving innocence, whether I'm mafia or not, I would be just as likely to have posted it. So really we're working off probability. In all likelihood there are more innocents than mafia in this game, and yet for some reason, me having access to the innocent role PM automatically makes me mafia? Absurd logic.

I maintain that a known title of sadist is still worth going for. And shot, I get the quotation, and I'm inclined to trust you for the time being. Really this:



But I am eager to see justice served.

Interesting choice of words. But to whom?

simply drives home to me the fact that Lance Warrior clearly has very different descriptions in his role and I would go on to assume he also has (possibly) a different win condition.

I mean, seriously. We have someone we know is different (not standard pro-town) and yet people would prefer to vote for people on tenuous and contrived "evidence".

[LanceWarrior]

I'm interested in why Grot is so against a Morior lynch?

I only asked that question of Shot because when someone puts justice served it could be to anyone. I myself am hoping to serve justice to the gangs - or at least my role does.

[Subzero]

If there's a Vig in town, kill whichever one of Lance and Morior we don't lynch today. It'll save us time tomorrow. If there isn't, we should probably go ahead and lynch Lance tomorrow if Morior today or vice versa.

[Subzero]

I'm fairly sure Morior has been lynched at the deadline already though. On a separate note, the fluff mentions gang warfare i.e. at least two gangs, so it's possible that there's more than one gang. So if Lance isn't in your gang, you might want to kill him now.

Hopefully that's correct.

Current suspicious list:
Lance and Morior
Grot (use of Innocent role PM, claim that he must be innocent due to probabilities - illogical given that the probability of an Innocent and a Mafioso revealing their role PM to 'prove' innocence are almost certainly different, so I think there's a high chance he's Mafia)
Mozzie (defense of (earlier)/unwillingness to vote for Morior when he's near lynching)
Tree (using Lance's claimed vote restriction along with my fakery to try and argue that Lance is pro-town)

Anyway, the deadline was at 1AM this morning (GMT) so I'm fairly sure Morior's dead.

[LanceWarrior]

You forgot one suspicious person Sub; Subzero.

For his dodgy voting pattern in earlier game, and telling others what they should do with their roles.

[Tarion]

With a hiss of steam, the Pod containing your neighbour Morior was vented into space. He was still plugged into the chat program, and as he drifted away vile obscenities flashed onto your screens, followed by pleas for help. Soon, he was silent, as his pod got closer to Sol, bereft of the heat shielding on the Space Station.

Morior is dead. He was a New Londoner.

With an electrical whirring, and a mechanical clicking, the pods went dark. On the monitor a single phrase glowed through the darkness - "Connection to server lost".

It is now Night 1. No communication may take place within the game thread, and you may only communicate via PM if indicated by your role. All actions must be received within 48 hours.

Morior (4): Morior, Subzero, Shotcoder, Treehugger,
Lancewarrior (2): Grotfang, Baragash,
Grotfang (1): Enigmacookie,
Pox (1): Tom206,
Abstain (1): Pox


Not Voting: Zawicki, LanceWarrior, Mozric

[LanceWarrior]

Can we have a count of who voted who please?

[Tarion]

Roughly 24 hours are left of this night phase.

[Tarion]

Having spent the last few hours pacing your little pod, glancing fearfully at the monitor from time to time, you're at your wits end. You have no idea when power will return, or even what's going on out there.

Then, rather suddenly, one of the pods nearby judders, accompanied by sirens and a voice claiming "Emergency venting, in progress". With a hiss of air being sucked into space, all the cabling disconnects from the pod. Inside, you see Subzero pressed up against the glass, a look of terror in his eyes. With a harsh tearing of metal, the clamps holding the pod to the station, holding Subzero from the cold grasp of space, rip free of the pod, leaving dents and tears along the edges.

Subzero, suddenly looking serene, waves at you, before his pod vanished from view, losing it's momentum and being dragged into the sun.

Subzero is dead. He was a New Londoner.

It is now the Day Phase. There are roughly 5 days to this phase. The majority required is 6.

[Mozric]

Will post serious analysis tomorrow when I'm not drinking.

But I think for now all I can say is

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Baragash]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Not sure why the :eek: .....let's face it, either the Mafia were going to be too scared of Sub or were going to leave him to see if he incriminates himself (TBH, that statement is probably true of any game with Sub in).

[Grotfang]

I stand by what I said yesterday.

Vote: Lance Warrior

[Treehugger]

Well that really wasnt very suprising though it sucks. Sub tends to be killed off quickly when he's not mafia because the mafia is afraid of him. What suprised me is that I was begining to think he *was* mafia, with how he was avoidining my questions about the reasons behind his ruse.

Well on to the game as it stands. Im slightly suspicious of a couple of people but nothing that really stands out. I am curious about something, I notice on the final vote count that Tom has a vote on Pox, and for the life of me I cant remember why this was (and im feeling too lazy to look atm). Was this his initial joke vote that never got retracted?

[Baragash]

Was this his initial joke vote that never got retracted?

Yes, just after halfway on page 3.

In vote terms, Enigma's sort of stands out, seems a safe place to stick your vote so you appear to be voting.

My immediate instinct is to revote Lance, but I want to have a think, and I don't think we've anything to gain by a quick day phase by taking him out without discussion.

[Grotfang]

My immediate instinct is to revote Lance, but I want to have a think, and I don't think we've anything to gain by a quick day phase by taking him out without discussion.

I know what you mean, but as far as I can see there is little to discuss. As Tree pointed out, sub is an obvious target for a night kill, so his death doesn't really tell us a lot. Also, I don't think we know a lot more now than we knew yesterday. Lance looked more suspicious than Morior yesterday and he wasn't lynched. I could well be barking up the wrong tree here, but I am still pissed that people preferred to vote for Morior on such crappy logic when Lance was staring us in the face. And still is.

[Treehugger]

I know what you mean, but as far as I can see there is little to discuss
Thats no reason to bandwagon on a lynch without talking about it first. If we do that then tomarrow we wont have any more information than we do today. Which is exactly what the mafia wants, they would rather us vote blindly than see what comes out of conversation.

Im not against voting for Lance as he does seem a bit... wonky would be the right word I guess. But I dont think that percipitous action will do us any good.

Personaly id kind of like to know what Lance did during the night. The reason I ask is because right when the night phase started he asked for a vote count. This leads me to think that he was wanting to look over the votecount in order to decide who to target with an action in the night.

[Pox]

so Sub is out then - gonna take the time to re-read the entire game me thinks (with a view that Sub was innocent - should help cut through some of his bluff/counter-bluff routine) will post my thoughts later.

[LanceWarrior]

Well i'm surprised i'm not dead - but then again I suppose the mafia would bank of me being taken out this day phase.

Sub's dead - which as Tree said is probably because the mafia were scared of him. Although his alignment is surprising, I was suspicious of him to be honest.

[Zawicki]

I can't say I'm surprised sub is dead. And he was one of the more suspicious ones to me. Nothing has really jumped out to me as awkward or unusual. I'll read back a little bit and see what I come up with.

[Treehugger]

Lance no reply to my inquiry?

[shotcoder]

I'm not really surprised that Sub is dead but I am really surprised that he doesn't seem to have any special role...especially since my role pm states New londoner as well but I didn't have the voting restrictions he 'Seemed' to have.

Vote: Lance

He has already stated his role is a Sadist, which isn't a New Londoner, which is the best lead we seem to have.

[LanceWarrior]

Well going on Sub's suspiscions (he was pro-town after all, so i'm going to follow these):

We should be looking at Mozric, Treehugger, Grotfang and myself. Well I know i'm pro-town so i'm striking me off the list, and I think Treehugger is likely to be pro-town, why would he stick his neck on the line saying he trusts me at the cost of being suspicious. Grotfang + Mozric, i'm not sure about either so...

Sorry Tree, I was writing a reply but put my laptop down. I did nothing during the night, I just wanted to know who voted for whom - thought it might be helpful for me and others to distinguish who isn't pro-town by seeing who voted for whom.

[LanceWarrior]

Role PM times from me I think. I just hope that this convinces you folk that i'm pro-town:

Here's my role PM:

- Spacestation Slaughter - [Role PM]]You have a secret. You like to hurt people. You’re terrified people will find this out, and so keep to yourself whenever possible. However, you can’t resist some situations. You may only cast a vote if it is the final vote to cause a player to be lynched.

You are the Secret Sadist, and you win when justice has been served to the gang members.
So I sent a PM to Tarion querying something:

Does this mean I cannot vote whatsoever, or if I make a vote it will not be counted?

And trust you to give me such a nice + difficult to use role. And then of course there's the fact that on most days I will be abstaining making me look suspicious - oh and if I find out there's a kamikantze role in this game...! Grrr Tarion, curse his name a thousand times a spit on his grave :wink:
And this was Tarion's reply:

You can vote, but only if it's the final vote on a player :P

And before that, you can't place an empty vote, at all. So yeah, it's going to be difficult. Good luck.

[Grotfang]

I think Treehugger is likely to be pro-town, why would he stick his neck on the line saying he trusts me at the cost of being suspicious.

He didn't.


Im not against voting for Lance as he does seem a bit... wonky would be the right word I guess. But I dont think that percipitous action will do us any good.

This wasn't even a mis-read. Stick his neck on the line? That's fence sitting if ever I saw it from Treehugger (although he does have a point about holding back on a lynch, I suppose. I just got a tad annoyed to see two people dead for what I saw as being little reason).

Unvote: Lance Warrior for now, but he is still top of my suspicious list. Shotcoder is bottom, if anyone is interested.

[Treehugger]

Yea Lance you fell prey to Sub there. Which is one reason I was suspicious of him also. This is something he does every once in a while where he takes something that happens and stretches it to its limits to mean something he wants it to and then use it to accusse someone with. And as he says it more it starts sounding more true to everyone else who by that time forget what the inception of it was and now believe it was what he said it was, and the more that person denies it the more guilty they seem. He did it in Red Moon Atrocity to get me lynched day 1 and has tried it since if i remember correctly in another game.

In this case I said:

Though at the same time it fits in with what Sub is passively claiming. Different types of roles that have different effects on voting. And that fits with the theme of playing a mafia game that is set in what basically is a mafia game on a space station
Which he stretched to be me defending you and saying you are deffinatly innocent because of your claimed role and what he was faking as being his role at the time being somewhat simulare.

So you see Grot is correct. Im fence sitting on the matter of your innocence. Honestly your role name doesnt sound pro-town at all, neither does the role itself. In all honesty it sounds more like a neutral alligned survivalist role to me. But im not certain enough yet to vote on it.

[LanceWarrior]

I know my role sounds bad, it was one of the reasons why I decided Tarion needs to die (oh don't worry Tarion if you're ever in a game I mod, i'll give you a nice role...)

Currently though, I do realise I seem the best lead because of my role name, it's really hard to protest my innocence with a role name like mine, so i'm just hoping you'll believe me.

At the moment though i'm thinking maybe Zawicki - he didn't vote last day phase, and this:


I can't say I'm surprised sub is dead. And he was one of the more suspicious ones to me. Nothing has really jumped out to me as awkward or unusual. I'll read back a little bit and see what I come up with.

I now i'm sort of jumping of it a bit, but the tone of it just seems sort of arrogant. It's a small thing so I don't think it's worth voting him for (heck I can't anyway). Really, I think we need to have a sort of conversation.

So, i'm assuming there is no vigilante in this game? Just wondering if we have an investigative role of some sort; a cop would be good, but just wondering a watcher/tracker has picked anything up yet?

[Zawicki]

I did vote for sub last day phase, but then i retracted it after sub said it was a ploy to screw with people.

And I don't think it would be a good idea for the power roles to role claim yet.

[LanceWarrior]

I did vote for sub last day phase, but then i retracted it after sub said it was a ploy to screw with people.

Okay, did not remember this, and didn't check either.

And I don't think it would be a good idea for the power roles to role claim yet.

Otherwise though we have nothing to go on. Maybe an investigator should only claim if they have found something that would be beneficial to the rest of the town.

[Baragash]

Maybe an investigator should only claim if they have found something that would be beneficial to the rest of the town.

Even then, I would suggest it's too early to claim the way things are balanced at the moment..

12 player game typically features 3-4 Mafia depending on relative power levels, so I'd rather they stayed silent and then came out with hopefully two names at a later date.

[Treehugger]

I agree with Bara on this one. A phase or two more of results would be alot better all around before claiming on them. Otherwise we run the risk of losing an information role and getting only a little information that isnt ultimatly useful.

Its a little ways into this day phase and we still havent heard from Tom at all, and Mozric only to say he was too drunk to post, and Pox once to say he would post later. I think we need to hear from these people before making any decisions.

[Mozric]

*has not read anything else*

sorry guys but I'm not going to be able to post here for a while yet. slept in a bit and i have to run to go to work. :( Will be able to post tomorrow.

[Zawicki]

On saturday I'll be leaving for hawaii, I'll have some internet access via my dad's laptop, but he needs it for work, so if I'm not posting as much, that's why.

[Treehugger]

Ok as I said in the game im running I will be out of town this weekend at a wedding and I do not anticipate having access to a computer, so I will not be able to post until late Sunday at the earliest.

However I do not want to leave without taking a position of some sort. At this point I dont feel there has been significant enough discussion to vote for someone who is active in the game because I dont (personaly) feel confident enough on any of them to vote them off at this time. If you feel theres enough reason to then thats fine, im not saying your wrong. I just dont want to make a mistake on it and vote off someone who is trying to add to the game without there being what I see as good enough reason to.

So I am going to revert to my default position in situations where there is no good information to go on and vote a lurker.

Vote Tom
We still havent heard from him at all this day phase, he didnt do anything besides place a joke vote yesterday. He is dead weight if he's not playing imo and that is bad for the town and the game as a whole.

[The Tommunist]

what! why me?, i havnt been posting because im still fairly new to mafia, and in my other games i've opened my mouth and gotten lynched.
untill i have something constructive to say, i'd rather be quiet

[Mozric]

Pseudo-analysis time!


Current suspicious list:
Lance and Morior
Grot (use of Innocent role PM, claim that he must be innocent due to probabilities - illogical given that the probability of an Innocent and a Mafioso revealing their role PM to 'prove' innocence are almost certainly different, so I think there's a high chance he's Mafia)
Mozzie (defense of (earlier)/unwillingness to vote for Morior when he's near lynching)
Tree (using Lance's claimed vote restriction along with my fakery to try and argue that Lance is pro-town)

People have really ignored this list. Lance mentioned it only to say for no apparent reason that Treehugger was a likely innocent. Fairly suss.

Anyway, let's look at the candidates!

Firstly, Lancewarrior:
Fairly persuasive claim IMO, although quoting stuff that Tarion has said to him in PM purely for clarification would get him modkilled in my games. I know Tarion doesn't have the "no quoting PM" rule, but PMs are generally designed so you can fake them, while that PM from Tarion is definately genuine.

But, I'd have to note, his role PM could have easily looked like this:

- Spacestation Slaughter - [Role PM]]You have a secret. You like to hurt people. You’re terrified people will find this out, and so keep to yourself whenever possible. However, you can’t resist some situations. You may only cast a vote if it is the final vote to cause a player to be lynched.

You are the Secret Sadist, and you win if you survive to the end of the game.

But nonetheless "Secret Sadist" doesn't look like a role that's directly harmful to the town. He could have a nightkill but I think it's unlikely.

Grotfang:
Wanted an easy lynch of Lancewarrior. This to me is very suss, looks like a thing a mafia would do, quickly lynch the most suspicious person from yesterday before any new discussion.
But, then again, I can see why he would act that way.

Treehugger:
Keeping under the radar a bit. But I am a little worried of him:

Im not against voting for Lance as he does seem a bit... wonky would be the right word I guess. But I dont think that percipitous action will do us any good.

Personaly id kind of like to know what Lance did during the night. The reason I ask is because right when the night phase started he asked for a vote count. This leads me to think that he was wanting to look over the votecount in order to decide who to target with an action in the night. He's indirectly casting suspicion on Lance, which is strange. I'd have thought he'd come out directly against Lance if he was suspicious of him, but apparently not.

(And finally: Mozric: well you can make up your mind on me, I think I've addressed what Sub's said already)


So for now:

Vote: Treehugger

[Enigmacookie]

Right.

Re: tonights kill, as Grot mentioned, tells us nothing.

I still think Grot looks suspicious, but not as much as before. If he were mafia, he would not try to wagon Lance as obviously as he did on the last page.

I admit that Lance's claim looks fairly solid, but as Moz points out, it is extremely easy to fake.
Treehugger seems a bit more reserved than he usually is, "fence sitting" as he put it himself.

So, on the top of my suspicions list: Grotfang, Treehugger, Lance (as on most others lists, I imagine)
I'm inclined to believe Lance for now.

Voting from the gut, leads to: vote: Grotfang

[shotcoder]

Role PM times from me I think. I just hope that this convinces you folk that i'm pro-town:

Here's my role PM:
[quote=[Mini Mafia 14] - Spacestation Slaughter - [Role PM]]You have a secret. You like to hurt people. You’re terrified people will find this out, and so keep to yourself whenever possible. However, you can’t resist some situations. You may only cast a vote if it is the final vote to cause a player to be lynched.

You are the Secret Sadist, and you win when justice has been served to the gang members.
So I sent a PM to Tarion querying something:

Does this mean I cannot vote whatsoever, or if I make a vote it will not be counted?

And trust you to give me such a nice + difficult to use role. And then of course there's the fact that on most days I will be abstaining making me look suspicious - oh and if I find out there's a kamikantze role in this game...! Grrr Tarion, curse his name a thousand times a spit on his grave :wink:
And this was Tarion's reply:

You can vote, but only if it's the final vote on a player :P

And before that, you can't place an empty vote, at all. So yeah, it's going to be difficult. Good luck.[/quote:10sfkq5r]

I have one thing to point out. His green is different than the green in my role pm. so this either means Tarion made a mistake and changed the green for a few role pms or Lancewarrior fabricated his.

NINJA EDIT: so this is why my vote plans to stay with him.

[Enigmacookie]

I've been thinking

Unvote: Grotfang

I think Lance is a bit too eager to defend himself, even "joking" with Tarion (("oh don't worry Tarion if you're ever in a game I mod, i'll give you a nice role..."etc.))

He also says that he's surprised that he's not dead (ie. not killed during the night) Why would he be surprised? If his claim was true, the mafia would want to kill anyone but him.

(And Shotcoder has a good point, above, although that might simply be because Lance copied directly from the PM, not using the right colour code(ie. without hitting the QUOTE button))

-----> Vote: Lancewarrior

[Grotfang]

I'm sorry, I just really think that Lance Warrior is not a pro-town player. I went for him at the start and am going to go for him again. My reasons have already been stated and I would like to add the colour thing to that list.

Vote: Lance Warrior

[LanceWarrior]

@Shotcoder: My green is different to that, but I couldn't find the exact same colour, so I just stuck one in the looked similar.

EDIT: I copied + pasted instead of quoting.

[LanceWarrior]

Here is what a quote of my role PM would look like:


You have a secret. You like to hurt people. You’re terrified people will find this out, and so keep to yourself whenever possible. However, you can’t resist some situations. You may only cast a vote if it is the final vote to cause a player to be lynched.

You are the Secret Sadist, and you win when justice has been served to the gang members.

[Pox]

DAMN! just carefully re-read the entire game had just built up two pages of inconsistencies and dodgy links and was prepared to put down my thesis of guilt - when i realise Morior was lynched last day phase!

The only link i have left now is Lancewarriors secret sadist role sounding dodgy but that is pretty tenious.

[Treehugger]

Unvote Tom
Vote Lance

At the moment the evidence and valid suspicion that we have points towards Lance. Theres been plenty of time for something else to come to light and it hasnt happened yet so thats where it stands.

[Grotfang]

Any chance of a vote count, Tarion?

[LanceWarrior]

I really don't think killing me because of my role name (secret sadist) is going to be a good move. There's already 2 dead townies, lynching me would make that three. Probably expecting there to be 2 or 3 mafioso in this game, so killing me would leave possibly 6 (or 7) townies against 3 (or 2) mafioso - factor in a mafia nightkill leaving one less townie. Then the situation could get quite hard for the town.

So all i'm asking you pro-town people amongst you to think, is lynching me purely because of my dodgy sounding rolename a good thing to do? Would it really be sensible in the circumstances?

[Grotfang]

Hold on. Let me get that question sorted in my head...

Is lynching you, given you look suspicious, a good idea? Are you honestly asking that?

Any single player here can use the "I'm pro-town, so if you lynch me you'll be worse off tomorrow" argument. Why are you any different?

[LanceWarrior]

Is lynching you, given you look suspicious, a good idea? Are you honestly asking that?

I think Pox summed it up brilliantly:


The only link i have left now is Lancewarriors secret sadist role sounding dodgy but that is pretty tenious.

I don't look suspicious, my role just sounds dodgy.

[Treehugger]

Then give us something better to go on. Right now your role name not fitting with the alignment your claiming is the best evidence that I can see. Its not great evidence by any means, but there isnt anything stronger out there atm.

So unless you (or someone else) can put something else out there that is more convincing, what your basically saying is "Lynch someone who has less pointing at them than me".

[LanceWarrior]

Ok, Sub is confirmed as an innocent. So we go on his list:

- Me
- Treehugger
- Mozric
- Grotfang

Vote me if you want, but Sub thought Mozric + Grotfang. Outside me and treehugger (neither of which I suspect of being mafioso). Now I can't re-call either of them doing anything really in this day phase to change that so i'm going to go out and a limb and say if I could vote i'd probably vote one of them two.

[Grotfang]

Is this on the basis that sub, being a confirmed innocent, somehow had superior knowledge of the game's mechanics and everyone's role on the first day? Seriously? Honestly, I'm not that concerned with what sub hypothesised based on limited evidence last day phase. Right now we have very limited information to go on and you are looking the most suspicious. To be frank, you were the most suspicious yesterday too, IMO.

I'm not sure why you are so surprised people are voting for you. You haven't really given a good reason to vote for somebody else apart from saying "Sub suspected ___" and "I'm pro-town; you'll regret lynching me". If you really do think someone is more worthy of a vote than yourself, then who, and why?

I am open to suggestions and I know I am coming across as a bit hardline and unforgiving here, but you are coming up with a lot of posts that aren't really helping a lot. Basically, if you don't think you deserve to be lynched, then who does and why?

[LanceWarrior]

Nobody deserves to be lychned on the limited evidence we had - therefore maybe people should abstain?

[shotcoder]

Nobody deserves to be lychned on the limited evidence we had - therefore maybe people should abstain?

Abstain always was and always is a terrible idea at any point in the mid especially when you said we will be at a dis advantage after tonight.

we have evidence, and it's that you are not a New Londoner but a Secret Sadist. If that isn't evidence enough to cause suspicion then please tell me what is.

[LanceWarrior]

we have evidence, and it's that you are not a New Londoner but a Secret Sadist. If that isn't evidence enough to cause suspicion then please tell me what is.

I dunno, maybe an investigation from a sane cop or something?

[shotcoder]

we have evidence, and it's that you are not a New Londoner but a Secret Sadist. If that isn't evidence enough to cause suspicion then please tell me what is.

I dunno, maybe an investigation from a sane cop or something?

At this point I think you're just stalling and trying to make it to one more night phase.

[LanceWarrior]

we have evidence, and it's that you are not a New Londoner but a Secret Sadist. If that isn't evidence enough to cause suspicion then please tell me what is.

I dunno, maybe an investigation from a sane cop or something?

At this point I think you're just stalling and trying to make it to one more night phase.

So what a cop can investigate me and prove me right, before the town makes an absolutely retarded move and lynches a person on what - his name sounds a bit dodgy. Yeah great thinking by the people in the town here.

[shotcoder]

No that's not the logic being used here. You are the only person we are absolutely certain of that does not have a standard town role so that inherently make you suspicious. Also the fact you were so eager to drop a roleclaim at the firs sign of danger also makes you suspect.

The fact we should lynch you today gives our cop(if there even is one) atleast one less target to worry about investigating and wasting said investigation on.

Also the "the town is stupid for lynching me" is a completely rediculous arguement that holds less water than your Role claim being inherently protown based of a role claim in a game where role claiming is an obvious tool for both the mafia and the town. The fact of the matter is your defense is shitty at best and yet you still act condecending to the town for being suspicious of you.

[Grotfang]

So what a cop can investigate me and prove me right, before the town makes an absolutely retarded move and lynches a person on what - his name sounds a bit dodgy. Yeah great thinking by the people in the town here.

Whenever the town lynches an innocent it is a shitty choice. However, it is unavoidable and you saying this is just another "I'm innocent, don't lynch me!" comment.

Hey guys, in case you didn't realise already, I really am innocent! (Just wanted to add that in case there was any doubt here... :roll:

You see. Anyone can say it. If I were mafia then I would still have been able to type those words in. What you are asking is for us to lynch either a random person (you still haven't told us someone more suspicious than yourself) or to abstain (giving the mafia a free nightkill) in order for a cop (of unknown sanity, I presume given it is the 2nd day) to not only investigate you, but to also roleclaim the following day regardless of the result, and still not knowing his sanity. Yep. Great plan.

Look, the problem is that so far, all of your quotations and PMs could be posted exactly as before, but with orange or red instead of green and they would still read fine. Do you not see the issue?

Now, the following paragraph should be read dispassionately. Please read it properly before coming up with "OMG! You want to kill innocents!" arguments

Exactly how retarded is lynching you anyway? Even if you are pro-town, you don't really have any special ability or insight. If the alternative is lynching a normal pro-towner, then surely we'd be worse off than lynching a pro-town player who could vote normally. And so far no-one more suspicious than you has been pointed out.

[Tarion]

Lancewarrior (4); Treehugger, Grotfang, Enigmacookie, Shotcoder
Treehugger (1); Mozric,

Not voting: Pox, tom206, Baragash, LanceWarrior, Zawicki,

Votes required for lynch: 2 more

I'm going to give this one more day, because of the massive inactivity. Sorry for my inactivity, just started working again - It's a bit of an adjustment.

[shotcoder]

I'm not really surprised that Sub is dead but I am really surprised that he doesn't seem to have any special role...especially since my role pm states New londoner as well but I didn't have the voting restrictions he 'Seemed' to have.

Vote: Lance

He has already stated his role is a Sadist, which isn't a New Londoner, which is the best lead we seem to have.


Tarion I had voted for Lance about 2 pages ago....sorry for the confusion

[Tarion]

Oh, sorry. So you did. Completely missed that one :oops:

[Mozric]

Well, to be honest I have to agree. Lance is looking the most suspicious. He's also not making any good arguments that we should spare him so.

Unvote: Treehugger

Vote: Lancewarrior

[Zawicki]

I'm not sure what to think of lance right now. But, I can tell you this; If there is only one kill tonight, the mafia probably can't kill at all. Hopefully I can say more in the next day phase.

[Tarion]

Lancewarrior (5); Treehugger, Grotfang, Enigmacookie, Shotcoder, Mozric

Unless something changes massively by the time I get home from work, it's good night LW.

[The Tommunist]

it seems that the crowd has spoken
vote:lancewarrior

[Tarion]

Lancewarrior continued to tap futilely at the keys. At this point, it didn't matter. His secret was out, and no-one would believe that someone who wasn't nice could still be a good person.

As the launching sequence began, Lancewarrior was at peace with his fate, as he was left adrift.

Lancewarrior, the Secret Sadist is dead. It is now the night phase.

[Tarion]

With a hiss and a judder, Mozric was brought to his feet. Pounding at his useless computer screen, he attempted to stop what was happening.

It didn't matter. Like the others, he was vented into space.

He was a member of the New Redbridge Reaver Gang, and justice has been served to him.

It is now the day phase. It will last approximately 5 days, or until a person is lynched. 5 votes are required for a lynch.

[Enigmacookie]

Wait whut? Seems like a vigilante kill?

Zawicki, go ahead.

[Zawicki]

I am an unlucky executioner. I have to kill someone every night, if i don't, then I die instead. Sub was acting very strange the first day, and without much to go on, I killed him. Since sub was innocent, I went off of his list of people, again, since there wasn't much to decide who was mafia and who was not. So I picked moz. Looks like sub was right. at least about one of the people.

[Treehugger]

Zaw so your saying your a pro-town Vigilante and you killed Moz last night?
If this is true then im a little confused. It means the mafia either:
1) doesnt have a night kill
2) does but has been prevented by combination of roleblock and/or doctor
3) either choose not to make a kill(s) or choose to kill the same person(s) you did

I always have to worry when the possibility of the mafia not having a kill comes up. The amount of balancing that would need to happen in order to make that fair is...well its a lot and in a way more devastating than the night kill would have been for the town. Now there were a couple of pro-town roles already revealed that are liabilities for us in that they either actively made the player seem suspicious because of how it made them vote and/or limited the usefulness of that players vote (Morior and Lance). But that honestly doesnt even get you close to the amount of balance youd need. Youd need investigator(s) with unconfirmed and/or not normal sanity, miller(s), godfather(s), bulletproof mafioso or mafia doctors (since there would be a pro-town vig as the only source of night kills), evidence planter (not sure if thats the right name but you get the point) just to name a few and youd need several of them.

I honestly dont know if I buy that or not. Its possible, but...i dont know. Plus in all the games ive played there have been several times that the possibility was raised, but that it always ended up not being true because of something else going on behind the scenes.

[Pox]

agree with Treehugger on this one - a mafia that can't kill anyone at night? seems a bit odd but then again i doubt the mafia would target their own people! so it HAS to be a vigilante action?

if the mafia can't kill then they must have some mighty roles (doctor, bullutproof - town having insane cops etc) or they have a piss poor chance of doing anything this game.

if the mafia can kill them either something has stopped them, or they have decided not too, they targeted someone who somehow kills the mafia instead of them - or they have been targeting the same people as Zawicki on both nights (which seems just a little too coincidential)

or Zawicki is just plain lying? and roleclaiming a made up role - but then again we have a dead mafia night kill?

lot's of questions here. either way gonna watch Zawicki - as that is an interesting role to say the least in a mini mafia and changes the dynamics of the game incrediably.

[Zawicki]

well, the secret sadist was another interesting role, but that was in the game. I would not be surprised if there is other interesting roles in this game. And if there is other vote restrictive roles/weird roles. I would advise those people not to role claim, since that will probably end up with everyone jumping over them saying it smells fishy.

[Baragash]

While I think about this...Z, why did you choose to claim?

Sub also being the Mafia's target makes sense, if Sub is Town, there's always a good chance the Mafia will be too scared of him to let him survive the first night. Moz not so much, but my point is that realistically, we're only looking at one night of no Mafia kill IMO (and there's reasons eg Doctor, role-block) that could have come about.

I'm not sure the claim, if it's true, really tells us anything at this point.

As an aside, thematically, the role fits the game, that someone might want to get the hell out of the pods and back to life, but the name doesn't make sense...Z, can you give us any attached "fluff" to your role?

[Zawicki]

In my pm it says that my cell doesn't look good. On one wall there is a map that shows me all the other cells. There is also a timer. There is also a burned manual, all the pages are unreadable except one. The page says that if the countdown start the station prepares to jettison a cell. You must choose a cell to jettison, if you don't your cell will be jettisoned instead.

That is a paraphrase of my fluff. Again, I am the Unlucky Executioner. I win when when justice has been served to the gang members.

I role claimed so that everyone else would know the mafia can't kill (probably). If they can, I figure I'm probably still safe seeing as I can still hurt the town. But if we get two suspicious targets today, we lynch one and I can kill the other.

[Zawicki]

*bump*

[shotcoder]

I'm really at a loss now, and I thought Lance was really fudging his way through it.

But on today's moves I

Vote: EnigmaCookie

Why? because he is usually extremely active in these games but seems to me to be acting behind the scenes. Also he was easily persuaded to change his vote from grotfang to Lance.

the only people I am comfortable with right now are Zawicki and Grot. Zawicki because I've already condemned a roleclaiming individual and I don't want to do it again(shoddy reasoning yes but I still feel a bit guilty for doing it) and Grot for his role claim matching mine.

[Treehugger]

Sorry for not posting the past few days, this last weekend was hectic. Though it seems everyone may of had the same issue since this day has been very quiet.

Well while I dont want to write Zawi off as innocent yet like Shot is, at the same time I find it hard to ignore his claim. I can see why he would claim if it were true (he could be worried about a watcher/tracker which would fit in with the theme of the game).

Though we have to keep in mind that he could be mafia who set this up to kill off one of their own players in order to claim like he did and look innocent (depending on the "a mafia would never nightkill one of their own"). It would be a risky move but is possible.

EC has been quieter than normal this is true.
But at the same time ive been thinking about Tom also. Very quiet and hardly saying anything at all, he came on just to cast the lynching vote on Lance while saying only "the crowd has spoken" as if it didnt matter who he voted for as long as he looked like everyone else and didnt stand out from them.

[Enigmacookie]

Yeah, I've been quiet. Not been in the mood for forum games lately.

Hmm, I think I'll believe Z's claim for now. It sort of makes sense: he has to keep killing, we believe it's the mafia. Hmm, wonder if...it would be smarter to just make Z die? That way, no one will have to die during the night (don't worry, Zawicki, you'd be pulling one for the team)

Actually, that would be the right decision, I think. Anyone disagree?

[Pox]

Yeah, I've been quiet. Not been in the mood for forum games lately.

Hmm, I think I'll believe Z's claim for now. It sort of makes sense: he has to keep killing, we believe it's the mafia. Hmm, wonder if...it would be smarter to just make Z die? That way, no one will have to die during the night (don't worry, Zawicki, you'd be pulling one for the team)

Actually, that would be the right decision, I think. Anyone disagree?


WOAH!!!!! you can't do that...

oh hang on that's some twisted logic right their!

so because Z HAS to kill in the night phase it means if he dies the town has a higher change of survival as the death count will be lower and day phases are more useful then night phases for determining guilt.

still crazy logic! heartily expect you to be shot down (and possibly lynched) over this dangerous train of thinking.

[Treehugger]

Of course it also means that we would lose another chance at killing the mafia. Sure the second chance is left to a single persons determination which may or may not be good, it depends entirly on how accurate his guesses/intuition would be.

[Zawicki]

I'd be willing to take suggestions from you guys during the day phase, and if you guys with out a doubt want to lynch me, just let me kill myself in the night phase instead, that way you're lynch won't be wasted. If I don't send in a kill, then I die instead.

[Baragash]

Two assumptions here... Zawicki is telling the truth[/*:m:2leafk85] I've understood his fluff/rules correctly[/*:m:2leafk85]

Now...the way Z describes it suggests that if/when the Mafia make their kill, Z gets the venting warning and nominates a target (not clear on whether he knows who has been chosen...looks like a no). So the Mafia kill activates Z....?

What this effectively means to me is that we're in bonus land: two lynches effectively.

We vote someone off as per normal, but also nominate someone for Z to nightkill.

Of course, the Mafia could not nightkill to avoid that, or set up the second person as the next lynch if they're innocent by not nightkilling.

Thoughts?

[Enigmacookie]

Two assumptions here... Zawicki is telling the truth[/*:m:je3avz17] I've understood his fluff/rules correctly[/*:m:je3avz17]

Now...the way Z describes it suggests that if/when the Mafia make their kill, Z gets the venting warning and nominates a target (not clear on whether he knows who has been chosen...looks like a no). So the Mafia kill activates Z....?

What this effectively means to me is that we're in bonus land: two lynches effectively.

We vote someone off as per normal, but also nominate someone for Z to nightkill.

Of course, the Mafia could not nightkill to avoid that, or set up the second person as the next lynch if they're innocent by not nightkilling.

Thoughts?

I think Z's rules/fluff is simpler than that. He simply has to choose one to kill each night, regardless of what the mafia does.

Or am I wrong?

[Baragash]

The page says that if the countdown start the station prepares to jettison a cell. You must choose a cell to jettison, if you don't your cell will be jettisoned instead.

This is what made me think what I posted.

[Enigmacookie]

The page says that if the countdown start the station prepares to jettison a cell. You must choose a cell to jettison, if you don't your cell will be jettisoned instead.

This is what made me think what I posted.

Ah, yeah...Reading that, your version makes more sense...

Z, you're the one who'll have to explain

[Zawicki]

Ec is correct, I can give you my full pm if you want. I think the countdown is supposed to be the guys at "mission control" trying to speed up the process or something.

Basically I am a vigilant that will kill myself if i don't kill someone else.

[Zawicki]

Also another thing, bara, if the mafia would have to night kill to activate me, then why has there only been 1 night kill each phase? There is a chance of doctor/role blocker, but that would mean someone got very lucky.

[Baragash]

Why would there be more than one.....are you assuming that both gangs are present in the game?

(Which I agree makes sense).

Ok....if we assume that's true, last night something could have stopped one of them*.....and I suppose you could make a reasonable argument that Sub would be both gangs target....?

*And if someone did stop one of them, IMO there is no value in roleclaiming at this point.

[Zawicki]

Now...the way Z describes it suggests that if/when the Mafia make their kill, Z gets the venting warning and nominates a target (not clear on whether he knows who has been chosen...looks like a no). So the Mafia kill activates Z....?

There would be two night kills because you said the mafia kill activates my kill, so effectively the mafia would kill someone, and then I would kill someone, this would equal two kills. Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying?

[Baragash]

The page says that if the countdown start the station prepares to jettison a cell. You must choose a cell to jettison, if you don't your cell will be jettisoned instead.

This is ambiguous.....it implies to me you divert the Mafia's choice to whoever you choose, so you aren't adding a kill.

Doesn't deal with the 2xGang issue though.

Dunno, I liked my theory to start with, but there also seem a lot of holes/leaps/assumptions going on here.

What does seem consistent though is Z having control of the kill....IMO: We need to decide if we believe Z (temporarily at least)[/*:m:1g65vqyg] Lynch him if we don't[/*:m:1g65vqyg] At least test his "loyalty" by nominating an overnight target collectively as our secondary target beyond the lynch[/*:m:1g65vqyg]

I favour 3 over 2 at the moment. Thoughts?

[Treehugger]

Ok im gona be honest here, yalls discourse is a bit confusing. I think im following it but... well it seems overly complicated and it also seems to boil down to something that has no need of being so complicated.

If im following correctly your saying you think the mafia tries to kill someone, this then activates Zawicki who then chooses to divert the mafia kill towards someone else, or he is the one who gets killed.

Is it just me or is there no need for the mafia to be involved in that scenerio? They seem kind of superfolous since their choice gets ignored anyways right?

So thats why it doesnt make sense to me. It would seem far simpler (and therefor more likely) that he is just a vigilante who has to kill someone or die. The mafia having or not having a kill would be irrelivent to that.

I dont think that lynching Zawi is the best move atm. It could be a ruse but its testable to an extent.

Im going to vote Tom
reason has already been stated

But at the same time ive been thinking about Tom also. Very quiet and hardly saying anything at all, he came on just to cast the lynching vote on Lance while saying only "the crowd has spoken" as if it didnt matter who he voted for as long as he looked like everyone else and didnt stand out from them.
And he hasnt done anything so far today, which seems like hes just waiting in the wings for the bulk of opinion to swing one way or another so he can against jump behind it.


Can we get a votecount?

[Baragash]

Is it just me or is there no need for the mafia to be involved in that scenerio?

Ok, but... This game is a votefuck, who's to say the Mafia aren't getting messed with too?[/*:m:1we2xvdy] Is there really so much votefucking going on that the game needs to be balanced by no-kills?[/*:m:1we2xvdy]

(I have no opinion on the second bit having only briefly tried to design a game once).

Although, I have just spotted a dodgy assumption in my initial premise....the venting that triggers could easily be the lynch itself, so actually, I may have just filled lots of space with meaningless writing :oops:

[Treehugger]

This game is a votefuck, who's to say the Mafia aren't getting messed with too?
Ok thats valid. Maybe everyone is getting messed with on their roles and thats the balance. What this would mean is that the mafia cant elect their own kills until Zawicki dies (since if Zawi dies then no one redirects their kill).

Still its all just conjecture and not really bringing us anywhere. We havent had much discussion about who looks guilty since its been diverted to talking about the possible mechanics of a claimed role.

[Baragash]

Still its all just conjecture and not really bringing us anywhere. We havent had much discussion about who looks guilty since its been diverted to talking about the possible mechanics of a claimed role.

Well, it was/is relevant in that it basically gave us two lynches because we could decide who Zawicki should target, although it does look to have too many assumptions now. But yes, more time needs to be spent looking at people.

[Zawicki]

If im following correctly your saying you think the mafia tries to kill someone, this then activates Zawicki who then chooses to divert the mafia kill towards someone else, or he is the one who gets killed.

Is it just me or is there no need for the mafia to be involved in that scenerio? They seem kind of superfolous since their choice gets ignored anyways right?

So thats why it doesnt make sense to me. It would seem far simpler (and therefor more likely) that he is just a vigilante who has to kill someone or die. The mafia having or not having a kill would be irrelivent to that.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, you just did a better job of it.

In regards to voting for who I night kill, I will only kill a person who has at least three "night kill votes" on them. Assuming there is only two mafia left. This will avoid having the mafia control me. If votes are tied I will decide between the two people who gets to die. I'm basically letting the town control me.

Vote: EC


Yeah, I've been quiet. Not been in the mood for forum games lately.

Hmm, I think I'll believe Z's claim for now. It sort of makes sense: he has to keep killing, we believe it's the mafia. Hmm, wonder if...it would be smarter to just make Z die? That way, no one will have to die during the night (don't worry, Zawicki, you'd be pulling one for the team)

Actually, that would be the right decision, I think. Anyone disagree?

He tried to see if people would kill me off quick, and made it seem like I'd be doing everyone a favor by dying. He also did it before we had had any discussion about it.

Yeah, it's a little weak, but it's all I got right now.

[Grotfang]

Hey guys.

I'm really sorry I have been offline for so long. I have been away from home (unexpectedly) for a few days and I had not planned for it at all!

These last few pages have had some interesting developments. I'm inclined to trust Zawicki as he seems willing to go along with group opinion on his nightkill and this essentially gives the town two lynches each day, which is pretty useful. Of course, if he is really mafia then we could really lose out in endgame, but it is probably worth the risk (at least initially).

I'm not sure I agree with EC's theory on why killing Zawicki now would be a good idea. At the very least we can give him a chance for one more nightphase.

Just wanted to apologise to Lance Warrior; I really thought you seemed anti-town - I am so sorry I was so adamantly against you :(

[Zawicki]

Well, I'm leaving for another week on Friday night. I would like people to voice who I should nominate to night kill so that I can tell tarion. Otherwise I'll just pick a (somewhat) random person since there isn't too much suspicion right now.

Or a replacement could be found for me if you want, It's your guys choice.

[Treehugger]

Ok well I havent said anything for a day or so but thats because my opinion hasnt changed. Very little beside the discussion about role mechanics has been gone over, and im at as much fault there as anyone else is. I cant blame other people when I havent done it either.

Im leaving my vote where it is, on Tom. I stated my reasons before and in all of the time since he hasnt even posted.

[Zawicki]

I'll be leaving in about 7 hours, so if people could voice who they want night killed so I can inform tarion, please do so. I don't think I'll be missing too much since this day is going by so slowly. I still think EC is suspicious for trying to make it sound like the best thing for the town would be to kill me without any discussion.

[Tarion]

This has gone on double time. My fault - I've been graduating, and interviewed, and all that sort of thing :P

I'm going to leave it 24 hours from now.

My apologies if I've let this game drag :(

[Morior]

BUMP? *fades off into the distance*

[Tarion]

Votecount: EC: Shotcoder, Zawicki

Enigmacookie has been lynched. He was a New Londoner.

It is now the Night Phase. This will last approximately 48 hours.

[Tarion]

After all the lights went out, the usual happened. With a heaving, and a whirring, a pod was cast out into the sky. It was Zawicki, the Unlucky Executioner.

You all breathed a sigh of relief at surrounding another blackout, and waited for the stations motors to whir back down. It didn't happen. Instead, they very quickly whirred back up again, launching another pod into the sky. Aboard was Tom206, your Priest.

It is now Day 4. The majority required for a lynch is 3.

[Enigmacookie]

aw