tau titan.

[defiler15]

where do you guys stand on the whole should tau have titans debate. i think since all the other technologicaly powerful races. (and orks. even nids) have titans. then why cant tau?

okay they do have the manta missile destroyer, but i was thinking of more of a giant robot one. doesnt have to have close combat capabilities. be armed with massive guns and just shoot away.

or what i am going to make when i have time and money. a smaller more mobile one.(like an armored core for tau) like a larger battlesuit or something.

doesnt have to be tournament legal.

[Leonix]

http://miotd.com/images/20081007.jpg

[Baragash]

I think the main issue is that it doesn't suit their style of warfare.

[Leonix]

I think the main issue is that it doesn't suit their style of warfare.

Indeed, all the Tau's big stuff belongs to the Air Cast with their Tigershark, Orca, and Manta... But as a "what if" project I would turn to Gundam, Armored Core, Supreme Commander, Robotech, Steel Battalion, or Mech Warrior for ideas.

http://www.tauonline.org/Articles/Tau_Conversion_Lobster_2_Large.jpg
http://www.supremecommander-alliance.com/uploads/RTEmagicC_Cybran_MonkeyLord.jpg.jpg
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/mecha/rc_val3.jpg
http://www.tauonline.org/Articles/Tau_Converion_SuperHeavyWalker_1.jpg

[defiler15]

I think the main issue is that it doesn't suit their style of warfare.

Indeed, all the Tau's big stuff belongs to the Air Cast with their Tigershark, Orca, and Manta... But as a "what if" project I would turn to Gundam, Armored Core, Supreme Commander, Robotech, Steel Battalion, or Mech Warrior for ideas.

http://www.tauonline.org/Articles/Tau_Conversion_Lobster_2_Large.jpg
http://www.supremecommander-alliance.com/uploads/RTEmagicC_Cybran_MonkeyLord.jpg.jpg
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/mecha/rc_val3.jpg
http://www.tauonline.org/Articles/Tau_Converion_SuperHeavyWalker_1.jpg

hmnn. maybe instead of a huminoid titan they should definitely have something like whats pictured above.

like wouldnt a giant crab mech work in a tau army.


I think the main issue is that it doesn't suit their style of warfare.

true as tau are mobile. but they could have something like this for massive firepower when mantas or tigersharks arent available. or have them for a mobile defense unit.

but like in armored core they could maybe have a smaller titan that is very mobile.

[Durandal]

That infamous CMON one (I'll track it down if you've never seen it) is probably as big as they come; though I do beleive anything that size would be like Leonix's 2nd set of examples; mobile, lots of heavy weapons, and low to the ground.

It isn't just their style of warfare; they honestly don't see how a Titan isn't just a waste of manpower to construct, arm, transpost, deploy, and for what? A giant target you can start shoot at from miles away. And guess what the Tau love to do. The only thing that keeps Titans as a consiterable option are the void shields.

[Baragash]

Defensively super-heavy walkers make sense.

Offensively I was just assuming the Tau thinking would be: "needs to be mobile" -> "should be a skimmer" -> "may as well be a plane" :)

[Leonix]

I think the main issue is that it doesn't suit their style of warfare.

true as tau are mobile. but they could have something like this for massive firepower when mantas or tigersharks arent available. or have them for a mobile defense unit.

but like in armored core they could maybe have a smaller titan that is very mobile.
I could see something transforming like a... http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj230/AUST_Tober/macross-vf-1jhikarusuperpack.jpg

[defiler15]

Defensively super-heavy walkers make sense.

Offensively I was just assuming the Tau thinking would be: "needs to be mobile" -> "should be a skimmer" -> "may as well be a plane" :)

so what about a skimmer walker. again like i said it could be something small(by titan standards) and fast.

and hers another thought. what about a giant skimmer. like the eldar have.

[Durandal]

Defensively super-heavy walkers make sense.

Offensively I was just assuming the Tau thinking would be: "needs to be mobile" -> "should be a skimmer" -> "may as well be a plane" :)
Titans are a tad larger then the super-heavy class, my boy :wink:
@Leonix- I love Vertitech(?) fighters!

[Leonix]

Defensively super-heavy walkers make sense.

Offensively I was just assuming the Tau thinking would be: "needs to be mobile" -> "should be a skimmer" -> "may as well be a plane" :)
Titans are a tad larger then the super-heavy class, my boy :wink:
@Leonix- I love Vertitech(?) fighters!

Is this big enough?
http://www.collectiondx.com/system/files/10064025a.jpg

[Leonix]

Nono I got your Tau titan rite here!
[video:2zaxsed8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4GaPcLgOs[/video:2zaxsed8]

[Angelofblades]

IMHO, if Tau did have bipedal Titan's I would envision them with reverse leg jointed legs.

[defiler15]

IMHO, if Tau did have bipedal Titan's I would envision them with reverse leg jointed legs.

from the pics leonix has shown i think a crab like mech could work.


Defensively super-heavy walkers make sense.

Offensively I was just assuming the Tau thinking would be: "needs to be mobile" -> "should be a skimmer" -> "may as well be a plane" :)
Titans are a tad larger then the super-heavy class, my boy :wink:
@Leonix- I love Vertitech(?) fighters!

ok how about a super heavy skimmer walker.

[Leonix]

ok how about a super heavy skimmer walker.

Yup... I though about this, and came up with a great way to explain one in the Tau army...


The Lower Deck of the Manta consists of up to four Devilfish-hull-based Tau vehicles, the only known exception being the Sky Ray, whose missile rack cannot viably fit inside the cargo bay. Up to eight Crisis suits can stand, ready for immediate deployment, in the center of the bay, although it is unknown if crisis suit pilots can be inside their suits' cockpits while inside the manta. Alternatively, this bay can be dropped, either to allow heavy support to another hunter cadre, or in case of emergency landing. Also, a small ramp can descend from in front of the Crisis suits, allowing them to easily disembark. Lastly, units, being skimmers and jump jet suits, can disembark from the cargo bay while the vehicle is still in flight.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Tau/Manta/complete/manta16.jpg
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Tau/Manta/complete/manta15.jpg

So if you made a SH Tank/Skimmer/Walker with the same rough dimensions, and contact points as the Manta's lover deck then it could be transported in and out of battle just as easily giving the Tau the ground firepower of a tank roughly 4-5 times bigger than a Hammerhead, and still retain the option for it to be carried off the planet, and/or redeployed via a Manta heavy dropship...

[commandojimbob]

Personally i would hate to see a Tau titan . Titans are old technology as far as my limited 40k knowledge goes, especially for the imperium, and actually the superior Tech arguement in my head means they would opt for more versatile and mobile super heavy platforms such as flyers or skimmers or atmosphere skimming space crafts that can deal death from above, not something that can be seen from miles away and hit with long range weapons.

[Vagorin]

I like the idea of a big ole fat Manta Skimmer shootiing missle death at the bad guys. :twisted:

The mobile suits that the tau use are very fast, And fill a certain role. I really can't see a larger version of these things in the Tau arsenal.
I see skimmers and tank like vehicles. Probably closer to eldar. but if there are allot of imperial vehicles and planes and titans. I think Tau would dominate in the sky with the air cast Planes and then just bomb the snot out of the Imperium.

the only army I can see coming close to tau in fighting style with planes would be eldar.

[Leonix]

http://www.arenait.net/files/0000/supreme_commander_fatboy.jpg

[defiler15]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/megalith.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/supcom/images/thumb/a/aa/Cybran_Megalith2.jpg/300px-Cybran_Megalith2.jpg

the cannons could be rail guns. and could maybe have troop transport caibabilities.

[Warlord Imp]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/megalith.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/supcom/images/thumb/a/aa/Cybran_Megalith2.jpg/300px-Cybran_Megalith2.jpg

the cannons could be rail guns. and could maybe have troop transport caibabilities.

Lokks like he would POOP the troop out the backside or maybe some Crisis Suits....POOPED!

[MasterArch]

I've been meaning to design a Tau heavy walker for some time based on a four legged multipede chassis and designing it with the same flexible philosophy of a Crisis Suit (i.e weapon hardpoints rather than a fixed armament).

I might make a blog of the design process or maybe just post it here

[defiler15]

cool masterarch i cant wait to see it.

i actualy found a couple links to other forums where people are making there own tau titans.

giant crab walker: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 13877.page (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/213877.page)

smaller mecha-ish walker (looks like a transformer): http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewt ... 22&t=11021 (http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=11021)

[Diagnosis Ninja]

The biggest I can see them going to is the Manta, Tiger Sharks, and maybes a double or triple sized Crisis suit. Personally, I think they would rather go for a three-up Crisis suit squad than a single mountain sized thing. Would look cooler too.

[Rahveel]

I dont really get the whole "they dont fit their style of warfare" argument. look at the eldar, a far more mobile race, and they have mobile titans to reflect this.

[defiler15]

I dont really get the whole "they dont fit their style of warfare" argument. look at the eldar, a far more mobile race, and they have mobile titans to reflect this.
:smt038

exactly.

[Gendoikari87]

I don't know I always imagined a true tau super heavy as a Manta with a giant Missile bay in place of the transport area, something that could rain seekermissiles from the sky like it was going out of style. Like give it 100 seeker missiles and twenty markerlights.

Or maybe and enlarged hammerhead that carries a single heavy railgun.

[Rahveel]

1) that is an awesome, horrifying idea. build one, visit WA, and I'll let you use it against me. 100 seeker missiles.... wow... imagine an all pathfinder army backed by 2 of those.

2) who's to say some superheavys couldn't be as you describe them, and others more titan-like? I however feel that every race should have a titan-like superheavy. they are such Iconic and overt objects of power, and part of what made me fall in love with 40k. a little bias on my part?

[Gendoikari87]

1) Well I doubt anyone will see an army based on two mantas, the regular one is I think 2000 points,so for just the two mantas you'd need at least 4000 point battles, and anything beyond that is just .... absurd.

2)well... in a way, XV8's ARE tau titans. Just miniature ones. They're there for support, they scare the crap out of anything, and they bring massive fire power to bear, and are symbols of tau might and bravery.

[defiler15]

1) Well I doubt anyone will see an army based on two mantas, the regular one is I think 2000 points,so for just the two mantas you'd need at least 4000 point battles, and anything beyond that is just .... absurd.

2)well... in a way, XV8's ARE tau titans. Just miniature ones. They're there for support, they scare the crap out of anything, and they bring massive fire power to bear, and are symbols of tau might and bravery.

so why dont we get bigger xv8's :smt012

[Steele]

Another thing I believe the Tau dislike (And another reason FW's don't carry HW) Is that they don't want to have something that will -most likely- attract a lot of un-needed fire. Like.. a lot.

If people already fear XV8's (And probably is the first thing they go for to kill) Imagine what an XV888 or something would do. No one would end up wanting to get into that since most likely it'll fall apart once the enemy see's.. etc.

<Insert other fluff-reasons here>

[Gendoikari87]

Beacuse tau warfare is about mobility, and hunting rather than utter annihilation, I'd say we need new suits. Something that just looks cooler, maybe a fast Dreadnaught counterpart, but that's about it. if you look up hover AC's from armored core those would be cool, or something like necron Destroyers. But I'd say the thing Tau need now is more weapons for the XV8 and a cosmetic makeover for said XV8 ..... oh and a sniper XV8 that you can take in place of broadsides, with stealth fields.

[China]

The tau dont have a titan b/c they dont need a titan.
in my opinion, the manta is nfar better. It can transport a large army behind enemy lines
and capture na heavily defended objective, killing all enemys(or at least making them run away)

The only thing the tau are lacking is a large tank, somthing about the size of a baneblade

[Zawicki]

the reason the tau don't have a titan is because the tau way of war is extremely careful planning and execution of the plan. The tau just wouldn't put all their eggs in one basket like that.

What I would like to see for the tau would maybe be like a squad of crisis suits that are double the size. They would carry 2 railguns, some seeker missiles, and from their you could choose which weapons it had (maybe they could add something like a pulse cannon or a bigger version of the missile pods/sms)

[Rahveel]

I get that, but how are the eggs more in one basket with a land based superheavy, vrs an air based one?

[Zawicki]

The concept is not a super heavy at all, its that a small squad of super elites would be doing the fighting. That way if one of them dies the others can still finish the objective. 3 or 4 scaled up crisis suits would form the squad.

[MasterArch]

I think the Tau would employ a heavy walker simply when the cadre would need to destroy something like a SH tank or a Titan- to use it as a platform for a very heavy weapon system (destroyer) like a Mass Driver (at least that's how I envision a Tau heavy walker- one big spinal mounted destroyer gun and smaller point defence weapons)

[Leonix]

I think the Tau would employ a heavy walker simply when the cadre would need to destroy something like a SH tank or a Titan- to use it as a platform for a very heavy weapon system (destroyer) like a Mass Driver (at least that's how I envision a Tau heavy walker- one big spinal mounted destroyer gun and smaller point defence weapons)
Yeah, but according to fluff if they want to pop a Baneblade they simply call in a Tigershark, like on Taros...

[MasterArch]

but it would also make sense to have a ground based alternative. Aircraft are not always a tactically sound or viable choice

[China]

What I would like to see for the tau would maybe be like a squad of crisis suits that are double the size. They would carry 2 railguns, some seeker missiles, and from their you could choose which weapons it had (maybe they could add something like a pulse cannon or a bigger version of the missile pods/sms)

The Tau dont really need any more giant apacolypse units,
except mabey a larger hammerhead w/ a heavy railgun
They could really use a walker that can be used in normal 40k battles, not just apocalypse.
This walker could be similar to Imperial Sentinels, but not really a giant crisis suit

[Zawicki]

I don't see the tau taking a walker unit though. What benefit does a walker have over a crisis suit. The point of a walker is that they are supposed to be more maneuverable than tanks. But a tau crisis suit is more maneuverable than a walker.

I also don't really see the tau doing a crab mecha. What would it have over a skimmer? If anything the mecha would be weaker because to kill it all you would have to do is take out the legs, Where as in the skimmer you would have to take out the anti grav unit, which is probably buried beneath all the armor.

[China]

I also don't really see the tau doing a crab mecha. What would it have over a skimmer? If anything the mecha would be weaker because to kill it all you would have to do is take out the legs, Where as in the skimmer you would have to take out the anti grav unit, which is probably buried beneath all the armor.
Well, the Tau usually have two large engines next to the vehicle, all you would have to do is take out one, or two of the engines, if it has more than two, and it would lose control and crash.
To kill the crab mecha, all you would have to do is take out at least one leg, and it would fall down, damaging itself and anything it lands on.
So, killing a skimmer is probably just as easy as killing a crab mecha

[Zawicki]

Except that a skimmer has more mobility than the crab

[defiler15]

ok what if the tau had a very bigass gun like a super rail gun artillery piece that you couldnt have on a flyer. but you wanted it to be semi mobile so you dont have to redeploy it all the time. it could be mounted on said crab chassis.

other wise i would like amped up battlesuits. sorta armored core-ish ones. would make sense.

[China]

ok what if the tau had a very bigass gun like a super rail gun artillery piece that you couldnt have on a flyer. but you wanted it to be semi mobile so you dont have to redeploy it all the time. it could be mounted on said crab chassis.

other wise i would like amped up battlesuits. sorta armored core-ish ones. would make sense.
Dont the Tau already have a super railgun artillery piece(Heavy Railgun)?

Besides, Battlesuits dont really need to be amped up, they already rape, and could take down a Titan easily by targeting the Titan's weak points, something that is easier to do when you're small.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

Here's your Tau Titan. Imagine the invading Armored Core as the the Tau titan invading an Imperial world, with it's primary weapon being an Ethereal (read: Supreme) class Rail Rifle/Gun. It's fully mobile, with multiple capabilities such as being capable of hovering. If you don't think that's mobile, then you're crazy.

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Edit: The video isn't showing, for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biN2naXzaVw

[VoxDei]

That is not titan size. That suit is crisis sized. Titans carry whole battle groups inside them. I'd estimate that was about as powerful as a crisis suit with a plasma gun and missile pod.

Think of something like the manta. It has 6 burst cannons, 6 ion cannons, 2 heavy rail guns, some missle pods and a battery of seeker missles. It deploys 8 battle suits 48 fire warriors, a hammer head and a devil fish. You need something comparable to this.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

Dude, the Armored Core is freaking huge.

[commandojimbob]

Remember that the way the Tau fight means that its simply against their philosophy use Titans - they are all about mobility , being able to deploy or re-deploy quickly - hence a Titan is not the answer.

Titans are deployed for the imperium on massive offensives, where they want to overwhelm the enemy - the Tau dont fight like that - they will move constantly trying to pick of the edges of the enemy, taking out key strategic assets, not using a blunt sledgehammer like a Titan - hence they use skimmers, flyers , heavy flyers and jet pack troops for surgical strikes.

I really hope that GW dont make a Titan for Tau - i really doubt they every will but i hope it stays that way.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

How about something like an anti-grav fortress like that air borne Arms Fort from Armored Core for Answer?

[Leonix]

Remember that the way the Tau fight means that its simply against their philosophy use Titans - they are all about mobility , being able to deploy or re-deploy quickly - hence a Titan is not the answer.

Titans are deployed for the imperium on massive offensives, where they want to overwhelm the enemy - the Tau dont fight like that - they will move constantly trying to pick of the edges of the enemy, taking out key strategic assets, not using a blunt sledgehammer like a Titan - hence they use skimmers, flyers , heavy flyers and jet pack troops for surgical strikes.

I really hope that GW dont make a Titan for Tau - i really doubt they every will but i hope it stays that way.
Indeed... The closest thing to an Armored Core the Tau will could come up with would be a MC Battlesuit...

In true Tau fashion if a Titan was made it would have to fall within one of two areas..

A:Must be able to be transported by a Manta, or Orca dropship...

OR

B: Be able to travel from system to system under its own power.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

It's MT, not MC. Those are notoriously weak, unless you have a super MT, which trumps cities in size.

[Leonix]

It's MT, not MC. Those are notoriously weak, unless you have a super MT, which trumps cities in size.
MT?

[Warlord Imp]

Drop the titan idea and have GW release the FW Barracuda, Manta, Tigershark or Remora Drone Stealth Fighter. They are just as fitting in the apoc battle field and they have the mobility of the tau.

[Leonix]

Drop the titan idea and have GW release the FW Barracuda, Manta, Tigershark or Remora Drone Stealth Fighter. They are just as fitting in the apoc battle field and they have the mobility of the tau.

:smt038

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

I think Manta would be a bit too ridiculous to put on the tabletop...

[Leonix]

I think Manta would be a bit too ridiculous to put on the tabletop...
And a Titan isn't?
http://www.darkestheresy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/reavermcpf10.jpg

But Manta aside the Tigershark packs plenty of firepower, and you can field 2 per SH detachment.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

That's also ridiculous.

[Novasry]

That's also ridiculous.
It's also about the size of an Armoured Core, atleast the bigger ones

[defiler15]

ok well what about eldar they are highly mobile with fire power and they have a titan http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/rev2.htm

its about a foot tall with big guns and i hear it can fly or something (jet packs)

ok drop the big ass titan deal. i was thinking maybe have a battlesuit thats about 6 inches tall. (dont know what the scale would be) so i think it can be transported in mantas. or maybe a special vehicle for it. and you can have squadrons of 3 of them. and since there small they can have mobility.

wouldnt this make sense because of the fact eldar have a titan?

[Leonix]

I was thinking maybe have a battlesuit thats about 6 inches tall. (dont know what the scale would be) so i think it can be transported in mantas. or maybe a special vehicle for it. and you can have squadrons of 3 of them. and since there small they can have mobility.

I would think a Squad of 2 heavy/large suits would fit more... As long as they are no bigger laying down then 2 hammerhead (mesured end to end), then you could fit two in a Manta...
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Tau/Manta/complete/manta15.jpg

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

An XV8 battlesuit kitted with the engines and boosters of the Devilfish ;P

[VoxDei]

Sorry i'm just going by your movie cause i've never played armored core but it looks like a cool game. The suit in that game landed the infantry came up to his leg. I thing it's maybe 20 feet tall. You have to think bigger. You have to be able to put a whole army inside it. They dwarf the sky. I think the manta is the Tau's titan and about as good as the tau are going to get. Not quite as big as the human titans but much more mobile.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

Why does it need an army inside it? It's supposed to be its own mobile weapons unit. standard bi-pedal Armored Cores are 32 ft. tall. The Armored Core int eh video was using a weapon called the Karasawa, which is, even in its description, a rail gun with the power of a nuclear bomb. It's self generating, never heats up, and never needs to be recharged. Coupled with the energy blades and missile systems, along with it's high maneuverability, that can easy match an enemy titan. DO you think an Imperial Titan (Even if taller) can turn fast enough to shoot it as it boost dashes rings around it? Certain Armored Core 4 configurations would be able to handle atmospheric re-entry and exiting the atmosphere on it's own power. They also have Primal Armor, which is effectively an energy shield that could match the void shields.

[VoxDei]

I'm not saying it's not an effective weapon. It's just not in a titan class. 32 feet might make it the size of a titan's foot. It better be fast or the titan will just step on in.

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

Armored Cores can fly, you know. and, on scale, it would be half the size of a titan.

[Leonix]

Armored Cores can fly, you know. and, on scale, it would be half the size of a titan.
Limited flight, and 1/2 size does not a Titan make...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Tau/Manta/complete/manta21.jpg

[Shas'O Ke'lshan Adam]

It's not a titan, it's an Armored Core. ^_^ Is there a board the size of an ending zone from a football game for the specific use of that Manta?