2250 Tournament Salamanders A or B?

[Fuzzawakka]

Ok so I am modifying my 2k list a little bit I made two differant varients of a 2250 army list. Let me know what one you think would be more competative and of course suggestions on how to improve the one you prefer. Also note at this tournament Super Heavys are allowed.

HQ

Vulkan Hestan 190


Elite
CC Terminators 200
-SS & Thunder Hammers

Dreadnought 105
-Multi-melta
-Dread CCW

Dreadnought 105
-Multi-melta
-Dread CCW

Troops

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Missile Launcher
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 Scout Squad 185
-Missile Launcher
-4 Sniper Rifles
-Power Fist
-Combi-Flamer
-4 CC Weapons
-Combat Squad half into storm other half on objective

10 Man Squad 240
-Flamer
-Multi-Melta
-Power Fist
-Combi-melta
-Rhino

Fast Attack

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Meltas
-2xHeavy Flamer

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Melta
-2xHeavy Flamers

Land Speeder Storm 60
-Heavy Flamer
-5 Scouts ride in here
-Either Outflank or scout move depending on if i get first turn and army I play vs


Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader 275
-Multi-Melta
-Extra Armour

Total Points 2250

Here is the second list.

HQ

Vulkan Hestan 190


Elite
CC Terminators 200
-SS & Thunder Hammers

Troops

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Missile Launcher
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 Man Squad 250
-Flamer
-LasCannon
-Power Fist
-Combi-melta
-Rhino

Fast Attack

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Meltas
-2xHeavy Flamer

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Melta
-2xHeavy Flamers

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Meltas
-2xHeavy Flamer


Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader 275
-Multi-Melta
-Extra Armour

Total Points 2250

[Fuzzawakka]

I made a list C Let me know what one you like most...or more like what one would you least like to fight against :) And how it could be improved.

Thanks!
HQ

Vulkan Hestan 190


Elite
CC Terminators 200
-SS & Thunder Hammers

CC Terminators 200
-SS & Thunder Hammers
- Lighting Claw

Troops

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Missile Launcher
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 Man Squad 215
-Flamer
-LasCannon
-Rhino

Fast Attack

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Meltas
-2xHeavy Flamer


Heavy Support
Land Raider Crusader 260
-Multi-Melta

Land Raider Redeemer 250
-Multi-Melta

Total Points 2250

[Fuzzawakka]

I keep thinking about differant tweeks I like vindicators so I swapped out some things for two vindicators. Here is List D :)

Vote for
A
B
C
D

Lots of choices :) and of course you can make some tweeks of your own off of any of them.
HQ

Vulkan Hestan 190


Elite
CC Terminators 200
-SS & Thunder Hammers


Troops

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 man squad 245
-Melta
-Multi-Melta
-Rhino
-Power Fist
-Combi Flamer

10 Man Squad 245
-Melta
-Missile Launcher
-Power Fist
-Combi-Flamer
-Rhino

Fast Attack


3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Melta
-2xHeavy Flamers

3 Land Speeders 200
-3xMulti-Meltas
-2xHeavy Flamer


Heavy Support
Land Raider Redeemer 250
-Multi-Melta

Vindicator 115

Vindicator 115

Total Points 2250

[Hawkeye]

honestly, i hate land speeders, there way to easy to blow up, a stray bolter shell could do it!!
Id go for list D as vindicators and redeemers are great from my experience, although id scrap the speeders.
If you want mobility go for a sternguard unit (the shooty ones!) take 10 maybe less, give em a drop pod and meltabombs and theres an objective taker!!
Lighten up on meltas though you have loads, id take flamers as with hestan they become twin linked, re rolling wounds with flamers!! leave the tank hunting to vindicator or terminators (or the sternguard if u have taken advice)

Happy Hunting...

[MadMage]

honestly, i hate land speeders, there way to easy to blow up, a stray bolter shell could do it!!
Id go for list D as vindicators and redeemers are great from my experience, although id scrap the speeders.
If you want mobility go for a sternguard unit (the shooty ones!) take 10 maybe less, give em a drop pod and meltabombs and theres an objective taker!!
Lighten up on meltas though you have loads, id take flamers as with hestan they become twin linked, re rolling wounds with flamers!! leave the tank hunting to vindicator or terminators (or the sternguard if u have taken advice)

Happy Hunting...

One, land speeders are cheap as hell for a distraction and if they are left alone, one armed with a heavy flamer and multimelta can wreak some pretty serious havoc.

Two, Vulkan also makes melta weapons twin linked. The thing about melta weaponry is it needs to be close to do it's job properlike, so I run a lot of them and figure a few of them at least are going to make it up close to do some damage!

[Hawkeye]

[/quote]One, land speeders are cheap as hell for a distraction and if they are left alone, one armed with a heavy flamer and multimelta can wreak some pretty serious havoc.

Two, Vulkan also makes melta weapons twin linked. The thing about melta weaponry is it needs to be close to do it's job properlike, so I run a lot of them and figure a few of them at least are going to make it up close to do some damage![/quote]

Yea distractions are nice and pretty but i dont use em, this guys spent 400pts used on a 'distraction' abd personally i never use them as i think each unit has a role to play that isnt sacrificial...

And if your getting that close to use meltas why not give a flamer a go and see how it turns out
honestly its a sound -free- piece of wargear especially with hestan :)

[MadMage]

Yea distractions are nice and pretty but i dont use em, this guys spent 400pts used on a 'distraction' abd personally i never use them as i think each unit has a role to play that isnt sacrificial...

Here's something to ponder on: SOMETHING in your army is going to get shot at. It's not avoidable. Would you prefer it be your 250 point Land Raider filled with Terminators or your 70 point Land Speeder? Are you going to care much if the Speeder goes down and the Raider is untouched?

If on the off chance your opponent ignores it, then you've got a 70 point model that can drop Land Raiders and Infantry Squads at an alarming rate and almost never fails to earn it's points back. Not to mention it can get pretty much anywhere on the board quickly, a perfect setup for flamer and melta weapons.

[Fuzzawakka]

Hey guys I really appreciate the feedback critical or supporting its what I am looking for. I want the list to be competative so if you like or dont like land speeders I love hearing ideas about them.

I just did a play test of the list with 1850 points and it worked really good. The Land speeders recieved a good amount of hits and still survived due to moving flat out and then obscuring half the squad so they got cover saves. I have 2 land speeders that are equiped with both weapons and one that is equiped with just a multi-melta. I did this because I needed the 20 points for other stuff...and that is the speeder that I assign the pen wounds to. Its nice to have one speeder that is cheaper so gets hurt first. I find with having two groups of 3 I am able to kill any targets I want very quickly in the begining that are big threats to me. For the test game I lost one squad of them but the other survived until the end. Both recieved lots of shooting. I could of had them both survive but I wanted to to kill this terminator squad that was all bunched up so i moved 6 flamed them and meltad them but the dice gods were in there favor and passed 3 5+ and 10 regular wounds. Moving 12 inches would of been very helpful so I would only be hit on 6s.

All this to say that the land speeders killed a land raider 2 rhinos 1 razor back a devastator squad 1 terminator (not a squad :P) And they took a good amount of fire. They are fragile but not nearly as much as you would think as you have to kill 3 of them and you also have to deal with a cover save a lot of the time (if i can help it anyway). Then you have to pen it then you have to get a 4+ to kill it. You have to do that 3 times to kill the squad. And with tl multi-melta and HF even one is very deadly but 3 shooting is almost a for sure kill.

I think I agree with you guys with list D. The vindicator also was very affective it is very good at killing vehicles and hoard. The only thing is it doesnt utilize Vulkans TL rule for flames and meltas and hammers. I am also lacking long range I am soley counting on the LS to be long range by moving fast and then shooting close :P So not really a true long range weapon :) I will play test the list a few more times and consider changing the land speeders for something else. We shall see :)

Merry Christmas!
Fuzzawakka

[MadMage]

You'd actually be amazed, the multi-melta's are still effective outside of 12" if you're shooting something softer than Land Raiders. Get three of them twin linked and you can do the math.

THe cool things about metlaguns is the +1 to damage rolls... you only need to roll a 4+ to blow any vehicle.

[Hawkeye]

I think I agree with you guys with list D. The vindicator also was very affective it is very good at killing vehicles and hoard. The only thing is it doesnt utilize Vulkans TL rule for flames and meltas and hammers. I am also lacking long range I am soley counting on the LS to be long range by moving fast and then shooting close :P So not really a true long range weapon :) I will play test the list a few more times and consider changing the land speeders for something else. We shall see :)

Merry Christmas!
Fuzzawakka

Im glad to see things for your speeders are working out, ive had terrible experiences with mine and as a result there just gathering dust on my bookshelf :P
But i prefer armour saves to armour value and tend to gear towards infantry (somewhat) heavy armies. this works great for me and things like a vindicator or redeemer are great too. take always more than one vindicator though as they tend to draw lots of fire due to their infamy...
Take em even if they dnt take advantage of Vulkans rule, make sure ure tactical squads do though. I would strongly advise the sternguard but if you wnt long range firepower give em 2 heavy weapons or something slightly less common the master of the forge as HQ.

Happy Christmas!

[AzureWrath]

Keep in mind that vehicle squadrons treat all crew stunned results as shaken, so there is no way other than destroying them to prevent movement. Any time you are shaken, you just move flat out and get your cover save. Immobilized results for squadrons are always destroyed results anyway, so there really is no disadvantage to doing it. MM/HF tornados are great for this, especially in a Vulkan army. You can still make good use of speeders even when they can't fire by blocking LoS with them, cutting off an area of the board, and screening your other units with them.