Need advice on where to take list past 1500 (New Chaos)

[mechboy]

I have already got the foundation of my new army.
Taking from the Word Bearers fluff that the half of them who assaulted the Ultramarines fled not into the Eye of Terror but rather the Maelstrom and the corrupted forge world of Ghalmek with Kor Phaeron, I have decided that an elite army of with lots of armor would be a fun and fitting way to go.

My army up to 1500 points is going to look pretty much like this:

Chaos Lord with terminator armor and either daemon weapon or twin lightning claws
4 terminators 2 with power fists
land raider with daemonic possession

5 terminators, 2 with power fists
land raider with daemonic possession

10 CSM with 2 plasma guns, champion with power fist and Icon of Chaos Glory
rhino
10 CSM with 2 plasma guns, champion with power fist and Icon of Chaos Glory
rhino

I think it will work out pretty well and I'm excited to try it.
However I'm torn about where to go afterwards.

Here are my potential paths:

1) continue with land raiders. I could add another 5 terminators/land raider squad for around 400 points. Then spend the rest on upgrades. Best thing here is 3 land raiders would be hard to deal with.
2) continue with rhino squads. Add another 2 10 man rhino squads. This gives me a nice amount of troops but feels a bit like I'm moving away from my theme of elite and mechanized.
3) add 2-3 squads of bikers. Give them a flamer and meltagun and power fist champion. This would add alot of mobility to my force as well as assault power.
4) add some heavy support options since my land raiders are dedicated transports. Maybe defilers or vindicators for more armor support.

So what do you guys think?

[Kilroy]

Get more infantry.

[Phail]

1 unit of as many chosen as you want, with 5 melta guns/plasma guns/power weapons or whatever. These guys can infiltrate, remember, and are an ideal close support unit

Havocs!! With autocannons. Remember to have quite large squads and the mark of nurgle/tzeentch, so if you do lose men you don't have to lose autocannon wielding ones, and their quite hard to kill anyway

And, of course, daemons (greater or lesser, or both). Use them as a meat shield if nothing else


Don't bother with any more vehicles, tho. I think you have enough!!!

[MasterDRD]

get at LEAST a single vindicator, and consider a winged prince for the lash...

[Phail]

You could try something very interesting...

Take fabius bile and "enhance" your chaos marines. See what happens...

and don't bother with 'icon of chaos glory'. Go nurgle, or slaanesh, or khorne, or even tzeentch!!

since you are in your rhinos, you shouldn't have to take leadership tests that often really


and one more thing. Your 5 man termie squad (without the lord), give them all twin claws, the mark of khorne and make all of them champions!!!

2A, +1 champion, +1 khorne,+1 twin claws, +1 charging = 6A!!!

bail out of the land raider into combat, thanks to assault vehicle, and you have 30 attacks re-rolling to wound ignoring armour saves!!!

[Sedory]

you have 30 models and 2 target sinks (which likely will be carrying 10 of those models.) Personally, I think the chaos LR is just not worth it's points. It's primary target and almost never can make it's points back. Add to that you're going to use them to transport termies and you have the chance of not only loosing your pricey LR, but your unit inside as well.

If i member correctly, icons are tele-homers now... So, I'd use an assault oriented chosen squad w/ infiltrate and icon & a raptor squad w/ icon. This way you can DS/summon into the front lines of the enemy faster. Add some lesser daemons and/or a greater daemon and this boosts this option greatly. The CSM squads can support from range, but I'd recommend more squads (at least 1 more) and switchin some to strong ranged support options (ACs or at least HBs.)

As for LoT's all champ khornate termies w/ claws.. cute, but pricey. the icon is the cheaper +1A, while the champ and claws cost the same.. this brings the unit cost back up to what it was in the prior codex, which was rarely used.

[mechboy]

Thank you all for the replies.
As I assumed, alot of people don't like this much armor and especially the use of a pair of Land Raiders at 1500 points.
I think Kilroy's statement about summed it up:


Get more infantry

The issue though, is as I mentioned I want to go with a armor heavy list thats about as mobile as marines can get. I tried keeping the upgrades on units to a minimum unless it was something that I really thought they'd benefit from (like champions with power fist) and I wanted to add in some redundancy to the list so I'm not betting on 1 super unit, but rather every unit has the ability to hurt anything.

I know that I could probably make a superior list using CSMs in rhinos with a god mark rushing up to summon hordes of terminators and daemons but I feel like thats just going back to daemonbombing and I want to move past that.

So trying to keep the list as it is for the most part, I think if I want my Land Raiders to succeed I really need to spread out the heavy weapons fire. And one of the best ways to do that is load up on fire magnet units.
So adding a pair of vindicators to my list would go along way to giving the enemy some difficult choices. I could add 3 but that just feels a little cheesy.
1's usually not enough
2's just about right
3's overkill I say

But to add in a few more bodies to my list, I thought about a sneaky Havock squad. Take 6-8 marines, give them 3-4 meltaguns and put them in a rhino.
Since you can't tell whose in what rhino, you have no idea if the one blazing up the field has my troop squads or tank busters.

So keeping in my where I'd like to go with this and how I'd like to build my army theme wise, how does that logic sound?

P.S. sorry for the giant post :wink:

[Phail]

I have been working out my units costs in the codex, and my terminator squad is exactly the same amount of points as in the old codex, but have a 4+ inv save as opposed to 5+


P.S. there's nothing wrong with overkill

[mechboy]

P.S. there's nothing wrong with overkill

Fair enough.
In that case.....

2000 points of Word Bearers

HQ 135 points
Chaos Lord, Terminator Armor, Twin Lightning Claws

ELITE 810 points
4 Terminators, 2 power fists, Icon of Chaos Glory
Land Raider, Daemonic Possesion
5 Terminators, 2 power fists, Icon of Chaos Glory
Land Raider, Daemonic Possesion

TROOP 420 points
10 CSM, Champion, power fist, 2 flamers, Icon of Chaos Glory*
10 CSM, Champion, power fist, 2 flamers, Icon of Chaos Glory*

HEAVY 625 points
Land Raider, Daemonic Possesion*
Land Raider, Daemonic Possesion*
Vindicator, Daemonic Possesion

*It should be obvious that the 2 troop squads are riding in the 2 heavy land raiders*

[experiment 626]

P.S. there's nothing wrong with overkill

there is something very wrong with over-kill... it's called, " you're-standing-around-in-the-middle-of-the-enemy-because-you-foolishly-killed-an-entire-unit-in-one-go-and-now-you-have-every-enemy-gun-pointed-between-your-eyes!"

a great assault unit will be one that can land a crippling punch, yet won't break your enemy untill their assault phase! this way, your opponent either must commit more forces, (which they likely don't want to!) or else will be forced to give ground and hope you don't have the nessessary movement to charge again in your turn!
either way, you've taken the initiative and forced your poor, helpless opponent to make a bad choice...

cheers!

[MasterDRD]

" There is something very wrong with over-kill... it's called, 'you're-standing-around-in-the-middle-of-the-enemy-because-you-foolishly-killed-an-entire-unit-in-one-go-and-now-you-have-every-enemy-gun-pointed-between-your-eyes!' "

QFT

[Phail]

if your stupid enough to charge into combat against a unit with a million heavy weapons near it then you wouldn't assault it would you!?!

besides with however many land raiders he's got i think the enemy will have something more of a target, think you not???

and he could use the land raiders to block line of sight!!!

[mechboy]

Well honestly, none of my units are assault superstars, in the sense that they're likely to rip apart a unit in a single assault phase. Even the unit with my lead in it is only going to kill around 6-7 MEQs. Now sure that might wipe out a 6 man plas/las squad, but honestly I should be charging something juicer OR I've killed enough of their other guys that thats the only legitiment target available.

On the flip side of the coin though, none of my units are pushovers. They have the numbers and equipment to survive a pretty hellish assault and still return the favor.

Plus with the amount of firepower I can bring to bear, I should be able to really wound anything that would be a huge threat to me (like harli's or genestealers) before they hit my lines.

And most importantly, my plan is that by being so mobile, I can concentrate my forces and fight on my terms. Then I can pick and up run away behind cover or to another weak spot in their line.
At the very least, I'll be able to give some decent pursuit to more mobile armies like Eldar skimmers and threaten them with the long range guns.

[Kilroy]

Looking at your list I would replace a couple LRs with defilers that will provide you with firepower. Also Add another two CSM squads like your first two and mount them in rhinos if you desperately want to.

[Angelofblades]

Mechboy, what do I always say when it comes to making a list?

Pick out a type of way you like to play, pick out multiple winning strategies, and build the army to be able to play those strategies. There's nothing better than having the ability to abandon one strategy in favor of another one. You know I'm not one for tooling my lists against a certain opponent, but there is nothing wrong with tooling your strategy to fit the opponent.

If you want a frontline army, with the only strategy to charge, then make it like that. If your going to miss heaven, why miss it by inches.

[MasterDRD]

if your stupid enough to charge into combat against a unit with a million heavy weapons near it then you wouldn't assault it would you!?!

besides with however many land raiders he's got i think the enemy will have something more of a target, think you not???

and he could use the land raiders to block line of sight!!!


If you're NEAR enough to charge a unit with that many weapons in it it would be stupid NOT to go into combat, since if you don't said guns are able to shoot the F*** out of you.

[mechboy]

Mechboy, what do I always say when it comes to making a list?

Pick out a type of way you like to play, pick out multiple winning strategies, and build the army to be able to play those strategies. There's nothing better than having the ability to abandon one strategy in favor of another one. You know I'm not one for tooling my lists against a certain opponent, but there is nothing wrong with tooling your strategy to fit the opponent.

If you want a frontline army, with the only strategy to charge, then make it like that. If your going to miss heaven, why miss it by inches.

See I want an army that isn't "type cast" into only being playable one way.
Sure I can made a fairly decent assault based army out of the new Chaos codex, conversly I could make an infantry heavy gun line and blast things from range.
But where is the fun in playing an army that only has 1 way of being played?

This is an rather silly example of an army, but when you think about it, it does give you alot of options on how to play. I have speed, mobility, firepower, assault, all the basic elements that a good list needs (I think).
This way I can pick and choose how I want to handle any given army

...
or atleast thats the theory. :D

[Phail]

Lord of Tau wrote:
if your stupid enough to charge into combat against a unit with a million heavy weapons near it then you wouldn't assault it would you!?!

besides with however many land raiders he's got i think the enemy will have something more of a target, think you not???

and he could use the land raiders to block line of sight!!!



If you're NEAR enough to charge a unit with that many weapons in it it would be stupid NOT to go into combat, since if you don't said guns are able to shoot the F*** out of you

that is an aweaaome point

i am officially stupid


however, although overkill when assaulting might be a bad idea, there's nothing wrong with overkill if your shooting