Dark Eldar, can some one help me please.

[Thrune]

I picked up the IG and DE codex's the other day with plans to start two new armies soon, having a SM and Ork army at 2300 points each already.

I like the IG codex, was just what I thought it would be and already have a about 6 or 7 lists drawn up, all of which are competive and fluffy (I like my armies to be a little fluffy).

The dark Eldar codex however I am having problems with, I know i am going to upset some people (for which I am sorry) but I am very worried for this codex for the following reasons

1) Strength and toughtness 3 for almost every unit. Also all the troop slots are S3T3. I find it hard to believe I can count on these to hold objective's. CC is another problem but I want to give that its own point.

2) Posion weapons. Fantastic for those high toughness models (Avatar's etc) but take a spliter rifle to an IG trooper. Your now better of useing a bolt gun because their wounding on 3+ whist your warrior units are still wounding on 4+. I know there are posion weapons that wound on better that a 4+ but the majority of them are 4+ so against the Tau or IG or anyother army that has a T3 majority your at a disadvantage.

3) CC, they have some amazing looking weapons for CC and that fantastic high 'I' score on CC geared models. I just feel that their lack of toughness and relieable armour saves means that after the first strike your really going to suffer and your first strike is backed up by S3 so more often than not your not going to make your mark. Then what if the unit being attacked has counter-strike, thats going to be one large DE blood stain. I am looking at the weapons and I love all the little special powers and can see how they would be useful but I still dont think they are making enough damage to warren being so soft. Also, where are the Eternal warriors at, because for a race of imortals, that Str6 Instand death sucks. Would have like to see maybe a few more power weapons but I under stand I am just being greedy now

4) AV11 ,max unless your buy a special model and then a special radier for 440 points, before upgrades (I am assuming the Dails can take upgrades, nothing to say it cant.)

I know some of you are going to point out pain tokens and combat drugs.

Drugs I think of as a random gear change. If you are willing to sit down and do the maths or, as I did, get some one else to do it for you you will see they all do more or less the same thing, just change the speed of your army. D6=1 means you move faster, D6=2-5 means your can get though CC quicker (less lightly to bog down or to die if you get do) and D6 means faster pain tokens so you can be more aggressive with less risk. (Not stupid because your still T3 (4with drugs) and Feel No Pain wont save you from instand death so a S6 attack is going to leave you feeling sore). Over all I like drugs.

Pain Tokens are also cool, cant fault them just have horrible images of 6 Heamonculus HQ armies full of Wracks for all the free pain tokens at the start of game. I know its a good idea, but you may find your self running your HQ's around to spread your Pain Tokens around for the first turn or so rather than hurting the other army. Im not saying that with out some fore-thought that you couldnt do this very quickly, I just feel that so many things could go wrong if your not careful or your friend see's what your doing and starts trying to kill softer units when lots of pain tokens are there or braking the chain so your HQ finds him self in open.

I know so far I have been pretty negetive I would like to point out I can see its strenghts and I do believe that it could so easily be an army that is greater than the sum of its parts. For instance, take a equel number of Warrors and Wych's and now the unit that suffers from one of the points I made can be backed up by a unit that doesnt have the problem. They cover each others weakness. Warrors with posion weapons soffen up elite units that Wychs suffer against and Wychs can tear though the toughness 3 models that the posion weapons are weaker against.

I know I havent looked at units unquie skills that are many in this codex but this lends its self to the "greater than the sum of its parts" point that is a good thing. I can also see that speed is ment to be their defence and spear-tip but I cant put my worries aside.

I know with Heamoculus you can take Wracks as troops and with paintokens I just dont think I could call my army codex fluffy if this was the core of my army. Thats not to say I wouldnt take maybe one or two with a heamoculus, its a looks like a very good idea. Also you would lose your speed element (fleet rule) if you relied on this for your troops.

So, feel free to rip my points apart. I want you to prove me wrong and tell me I am worried about nothing and that these weakness are covered by how the army plays as a whole or what ever.

Before you slap me, I know all armies have weakness's, (eg you playing SM I am going to bring an ork hord of mostly 30 boyz mobs with PK/bosspole, I wont care how much you shoot me cause once I am in CC I will kill you with weight of numbers) just don't like to think it is the troops stats them selfs. (Like the Tau having BS3, I still believe that should be BS4 but I have never played them so I couldnt say really)

Sorry to go on so long about it. Thank you those of you who managed to read all of this with out laughing at me. LOL

[Ravenous2k10]

Playing against DE, I've found that bolters are very good. 3's to hit, 3's to wound and no armour saves completely decimates warrior squads that are holding objectives, not to mention them being able to destroy raiders.

I see the DE as a fragile army, you need to do everything first to succeed (move into cover, shoot first, charge first, etc..). For example, if a unit of 10 wyches charges a unit of 10 CSM (I play CSM), they get to fire splinter pistols first, possible killing a marine. Then they attack first with 3 attacks each (4 with drug roll) with hydra-gauntlets preferably to get even more pain, and hit on 4's (I think). That's around 20 hits on average. Wounding on 5's (4's with pain token), that's down to around 5/6 wounds for the CSM to take, killing about 2.

The CSM strike back, with 2 attacks each, that's 14 attacks. Hitting on 4's is down to 7. Wounding on 3's is about 4 wounds to take on a 4+ invul, so 2 die.

CSM lose by 2, so without a Champion they have Ld 8 and possibly run.

But that's just an example, although wyches are much cheaper than CSM, even standard ones.

So it just depends on luck, and how you can plan your attack to strike first to gain the advantage.

[PyroSikTh]

They don't call Dark Eldar the Glass Cannon for nothing. They're meant to be the most fragile army around, but they really do hit like a tonne of bricks. Their speed and open-topped transports gives them the advantage of almost always getting the first assaults and shots off, leaving too few left to effectively deal with them. They're also surprisingly tough thanks to cover and Pain Tokens. You have to make sure they're not left out in the open, and thanks to fast transports and fleet, you shouldn't really ever have that issue. As for lower-toughness hordes, that's what Wyches and Wracks are for. Leave the Warriors for the tougher and/or smaller in number enemy units.

Regarding 6 Haemonculi armies with Wracks, they're not going to be overly awesome. Haemonculi are really easy to kill so in Kill Points game, you're at an automatic disadvantage. Also 6 Haemonculi alone are nearly 350pts.

[ein]

1. S3T3 is the Eldar statline, and various units do get improvements / compensations to this.
2. Against Ratlings poison weapons will wound on a 4+, while the old version of the splinter rifle would have wounded on a 3+. With nearly every other troop unit you are the same (vs T3) or better off (Against T4+) compared with the previous codex. Dark Eldar warriors now have new options to throw out more shots with the same units.
3. Many Dark Eldar will have real difficulty slugging it out in close combat and surviving. However they do have access to many units that can (Talos, Grotesques, Clawed Fiends, Incubi, Sliths). Its quite easy to see a Wych unit in a big melee enjoying both their new 'dodge' invulnerable save and FNP and being quite robust. There are hit and run units available (Hellions and Harlequins) should slugging it out not appeal to you.
4. Given the hitting ability of the Dark Eldar, it would be too much if they had a reliable means of getting across the board. You can now choose between a Raider and a Venom as transport, and can deep strike vehicles if you wish.

I really like that there are a lot more viable builds with this new Codex, and if wanted you could build a relatively robust force. You have different varieties of meat shield to stick in front of the army, you have different types of mobility, and you have a nasty trick to counter any type of resistance you can name.

[Thrune]

Thanks for the commends. I managed to find a guy who plays DE and got into a game where we used each others armies. He took my orks, can't blame him they do bring the WARRGGH, and I had a really good time with his DE. Wych and warrior army with Icucbi and Archon at 1K points.

[MalkThe2nd]

You could tear any army down by just looking at its' shortcomings. While DE are frail, they pump out tons of offence in every slot and have the speed to gang up on enemy units. Take a good long look at that IG codex and you'll find that they suffer a few of the same problems that DE do.