Deathwing - yay or nay?

[The Dark Pwner]

You can view the page at http://40kforums.com/vb/content.php/215-Deathwing-yay-or-nay

[Ghostmaker]

Sold! You've explained DW simply, but thoroughly. I think I'm going to have to change the focus of my DA force now.

[SGS]

Well done. I especially like the example set ups for terminator squads, it gives me ideas.

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

Well done. I especially like the example set ups for terminator squads, it gives me ideas.

Here's a simple one amazingly not covered:

All TH/SS, 1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher

Spam this x3-5 and get Ravenwing (for melta, anti-AV 13+ easy) and you can just win sitting on all the objectives while your opponent tries to budge your Fearless Terminators off the objectives. More often than not, it's nigh-impossible, lol.

[Michael]

Thanks a lot for sharing Dark Pwner! Really helps me to decide on squad loadouts.

[The Dark Pwner]

Just so you guys know. I do plan on referbishing it at some point. So it actually looks pretty. Now that i've had even more experience with my deathwing, i think I can add a lot more. And with the FAQ out more variations are becoming apparent, as well as what the army lacks. For instance, Whirlwinds are very nice additions...now that i play horde armies on a regular basis I find I still cant put anough bolter fire from just the terms...85pts is a pretty cheap investment that is well worthwhile. I'm still a bit...meh... when it comes to vindicators, but like the whirlewind, it is a blast...but the S and the AP is still over the top. Still the 24" range is very nice to have...simply set up 12" and fire first turn...next turn walk back 6" and keep fireing...then the same the next turn... constant mobile firepower is the key to using them effectively. Those 2 actions alone buy you another whole round of shooting...possible 2 depending on terrain. Also; Cyclones are now king. There simply isnt a reason not to have them over Assault Cannons now that their Heavy 2. I kill about 6-7 nids a turn from simply the cyclones...the only thing that makes Assault cannons better then cyclones is the fact that on a LUCKY roll you can pen a Land Raider (6+6+3 (5-6 on D6)=15)....that's it. You also get those othre 2 Stormbolter shots...which if you remember...you need as much as possible on the table. Thats not to say assault terminatos arn't good...but I fail to see a reason to take them below 2k.

Basic lists should really have the following now:
Belial - any varient will do...all have their purpose.
4-6 Deathwing Terminator Squads - Standard shooty squads; no assaults. Cyclone on one, and a chainfist on another.

This list can now take on pretty much anything.

When you have those simply fill out with some of the following:
Against Hordes
Whirlwinds
Devestators - 4 Heavy Bolters or 4 Missile Launchers if you can spare the extra points
Dreadnoughts - DCCW with heavy flamer, Assault Cannon and Missile Launcher are all good options.

Montrous Creatures
Devestators - 4 Heavy Bolters, 4 Missile launchers, 4 Plasma Cannons or even 4 lascannons if you can spare the points.

MEQs
Vindicators
Devestators - with 4 Missile Launchers or 4 Plasma Cannons if you can spare the extra points.
Dreadnoughts - CCW, Plasma Cannon and Missile launcher are all good options.

Mech
Predators - with Lascannons Sponsons.
Devestators - 4 Missile Launchers or 4 Lascannons if you can spare the extra points.
Dreadnoughts - Lascannon and Missile Launcher.

Hope this helps.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Here's a simple one amazingly not covered:

All TH/SS, 1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher

Spam this x3-5 and get Ravenwing (for melta, anti-AV 13+ easy) and you can just win sitting on all the objectives while your opponent tries to budge your Fearless Terminators off the objectives. More often than not, it's nigh-impossible, lol.
I prefer a different setup for my shooty squads:
Sergeant with TH/SS
Terminator with CF/SB
Terminator with PF/SB/CML
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with PF/SB

That gives you 2 Storm Shields to shift wounds onto, while also retaining a good measure of firepower. Additionally, it gives you 5 different groups for wound allocation. I'm not a huge fan of 5 terminator SS spam as not only does it leave you with only 3 groups, it removes all shooty outside of the CML. 3 SBs can still put out a good amount of hurt, especially when two squads combine fire.

I however build lists much differently from TDP. There are some options I use that he doesn't even touch and others I don't use myself.

For example, here's a list that I took to an area tournament with a 36 player turn out.

Belial- TH/SS 185 points
-Deathwing Banner 20 points
-Apothecary 35 points

Deathwing Terminator Squad 215 points
-Sergeant with LCs
-Terminator with Banner/TH/SS
-Apothecary with TH/SS
-Terminator with LCs
-Terminator with TH/SS

Deathwing Terminator Squad 215
Sergeant with LCs
2x Terminator with TH/SS
2x Terminators with LCs


Deathwing Terminator Squad 240
Sergeant with TH/SS
Terminator with CF/SB
Terminator with PF/SB/CML
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with PF/SB

3x Land Speeder Typhoons (in different slots) 85 points each, 255 points

Land Raider Crusader 250
Land Raider Godhammer 250

Total: 1850

The list has a strong fire base, with 10 missiles and 2 lascannon shots available at 48". However, it still retains a strong assaulting element, something that is important against many lists which have Deathstar units. Also, having a strong assault units gives you a counter charge element. Using this list I took first place in the tournament against Space Wolves, Chaos Space Marines, and Orks. The games ended in Table-Massacre, Table-Massacre, and Table-Massacre. Without the strong assaulting element my tabling results would not have happened, and the Land Raiders increased my mobility 3 fold. The Typhoons were cheap fire support and did very well against transports and light vehicles along with the CMLs. When you consider that they are cheaper than a squad of Devastators with 4 MLs, that's a damn good deal. Chainfists allowed me to wreck the 2 Land Raiders I encountered.

In short, I prefer a balanced DW list, not one that is solely focused on shooting. The lack of hard CC punch has hurt me in the past when I take all shooting lists.

[The Dark Pwner]

3x Land Speeder Typhoons (in different slots) 75 points each, 225 points

This is something thats going in the refurbishment. I simply didnt see a reason to put it above. But as you say...very nice, cheap, mobile firepower. Befor the update there was no reason to take any FA. but with typhoons becoming heavy 2...the question becomes...why not take them. Three of them is less then a Deathwing Squad...I have a rule of not having less then 4 squads...since i usually have 5-6 i can afford to swap them out...also give me space for an apothecary; which = win.

Land Raiders are a...pfft...I dont know what to call it...I use one in nearly all my games, but it's more of a points filler, and is always the first to go if i need to shave points. Simply put...if your in a vehicle then you cant fire your guns...which is pretty pointless in my books...sure; take your rhinos with PASMs because they need to be in rapid fire...deathwing do not have this problem, it's like starting a fight; but asking for a time out in the first 30 secs; so you can break your own leg...

But obc there other ways of playing. BCS seems to be proof of this. I'll put this new way in the finished artical with your name under it.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Heh, whoops. Wrote that list from memory, so I'm not surprised I got the cost of the LS Typhoons wrong. I think I had EA on my LRs for the last 30 points.

Just to reiterate, there are plenty of ways to play. Some players like a fully mechanized list with 3 LRs and Dreads, I like a balanced list, and TDP likes a shooting heavy foot list. All have their own merits and players should experiment with proxies or extra models to find their own lists. Of course, some will be more optimized than others, but that's just a fact of lists.

In any case, Deathwing is awesome and it was a blast to take out my 21 Terminator models and 2 Land Raiders in a tournament. It's a really interesting and fun list that isn't too common and it regularly serves as a conversation starter.

[The Dark Pwner]

I think my 2k list is going to change to the following:

Belial, Thunderhammer and Stormshield or Twin Lightning Claws (I generally use the Stormbolter varient, but I think 5 more Missiles kinda make up for it. I'm leaning more towards Thunderhammer and Stormshield for that extra survivability and close combat punch.)
Librarian, Terminator Armour, Combi melta (Lots of Psychic powers in my club at the moment; so I need that Psychic Hood. The combi melta is a nice point filler. The Force Barrier Power is also a very nice addition to Belial's Command Squad.)
Deathwing Terminator Squad, Banner Bearer, Apothecary, Cyclone Missile Launcher (I did have 3 Assault Cannons in my list...kinda been made redundant, I was able to buy the Apothecary from the swap.)
Deathwing Terminator Squad, Cyclone Missile Launcher (I've found powerfists usually get the job down. So I took the Chainfists out which saved me anough points to get the Banner Bearer.)
Deathwing Terminator Squad, Cyclone Missile Launcher
Deathwing Terminator Squad, Cyclone Missile Launcher
Deathwing Terminator Squad, Cyclone Missile Launcher
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher (Brillient vehicles now. 3 are cheaper then a Deathwing squad; so I just swaped them out. I believe they will have more of an impact.)
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launcher
Land Raider, Extra Armour (To be honest i've alway had this. My games are usually 2k; 1750 points minimum. Its the first option to go if I have to shave points. I usually use it as a gun plateform, by sitting it on an objective with a squad beside it...just so I can put them in on the last turn. I'm thinking of swapping for a Crusader so the big beefy Command Squad can ride in it. But a pair of Twin Linked S9 shots are a bit hard to resist...I think more testing is required.)

I'm still not convinced by Assault Terminators. Might be good for Belial's Command Squad...but not anymore.