Thinking of starting

[Proturbo]

I am thinking of starting up fantasy. I have only played 40k so I know NOTHING of the rules. I have yet to buy the rule book yet but I would like to know a few general things about fantasy first.

I'm looking to start Tomb Kings if that helps at all.

Thank you for any advice/comments!

[Liam]

Gratz, you've picked, argubally, the least powerful army going atm, not totally, but you know, defintally in the bottom 3.

You do need the rulebook, there are alot of diferences. However you can either pay £30 for it, or pay £40 for the Battle For Skull Pass, get a mini rulebook (still has all the rules) and get 80 Night Goblins, and Numerous Dwarfs in the bargin, sell 'em on Ebay and come out of it not to bad off, infact I'd give you a tenner for all those Goblins.

Right, then you have to work out how you want to play. Balance? Mounted "fast" moving? Defensive?

Luckly you can do all 3, personally I favour the Anvil and Hammer when you can be sure it's going to work (which you can) so I'd go for that. To start the army you need 2 Core and 1 Hero, the Batalion does most of that for you. You get 16 Skeleton Warriors, 16 Skeleton Arches, 3 Chariots and 8 Horsemen, fatastic Value, thats 3/4 Core Straight away. You'll also need a Lich and a Tomb King/Prince for the army. The Lich First.

You need to play at the Hitting Hard where it suits you tictacs, so take a nice block of Tomb Guard (a special infantry unit), and make sure the enemy has to charge them, followed by some chariots and horsemen and it's as good as won, not to mention the silly catapult and your away!

[Baragash]

1. Can you be more specific about what you want to know?

General mechanics are the same, same charts etc as 40k. Movement phase is the key, although I would argue that that's true to some extent in 40k now.

2. Tomb Kings are a bit out of date, and also play a lot differently to other armies. Not saying don't use 'em (I have an army myself), just warning you the learning curve will be harsh.

EDIT: Tomb Guard are actually quite a poor unit. I would seriously not recommend them. They are too expensive with insufficient killing power or defence.

[Proturbo]

I seem to have a skill at picking weak/out of date armies.

The only other army that really interests me are the Vampire Counts, but I do like the Tomb Kings more because of the more Egyptian/desert feel (and I can paint my models using the "dip" :D ).

As for style I would like to go for aggressive, but balanced. I want to take the fight to them, but not rely on one or two super units. From what I have read (White Dwarf) the Tomb Kings are great in the magic department so I want to be able to utilize that.

If you can suggest another army that fits that bill then please do so.....

[Baragash]

I'd say most armies can be set up that way (even Dwarfs can be played brutally as an attacking infantry force).

First issue with TK at the moment is they get schooled by the most recent (and quite popular) army books: Daemons, High Elves, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves. Looking at the Chaos Warrior book as well, I would expect that to be pretty harsh.

Second issue is that they struggle below the standard 2000 point game size, so if you go for them, you really have to go all in ££-wise.

However, if you're really set on them, I would consider getting Battle for Skull Pass and learning with the 2 armies in there. Maybe expand them each to 1000 points to learn the full variety of rules. Once you've got a feel for the game, then decide if you really want to give TK a shot.

[Proturbo]

Any particular reason why TK struggle below 2000 points?

[Húrin]

From my experience that'd be because there basic troops aren't really very strong…

But I could be wrong on Baragash's reasoning

[Nairgule]

Yeah, its because the basic troop isnt that strong, and they cost about standard as reg troops for other armies, iirc. In under a 2,000pt game I took 3 groups of 30 slaves, and those alone chewed up the basic troops of the TK. Now above that, they get viscious. Bone giants walking in and wrecking the place up, scorpions coming up behind. The damn casket. I hate that thing.

[Baragash]

It's to do with the characters supporting the (as surmised) weak units, for some reason, it doesn't seem to cut it below 2k, I think it's the lack of Lord choice (whichever one you chose, I favour the Liche High Priest myself).

Also, regarding Rare choices....2x Skull Catapults with Skulls of the Foe, or 1x Catapult and a Casket (because the predictability of the Casket and your opponent's reaction to it is actually a useful weapon).

The other reason to not take Tomb Guard is because I want 4x Scorpions. I prefer large units of Heavy Horse to Chariots anyway (although obviously if you prefer the King to the High Priest, you can still grab the Chariots as they move to Core).

[Proturbo]

Could you give me a little more info on why the Tomb Guard are bad?

What about the other choices like Carrion, Ushabti, and the bone giant?

[Baragash]

Carrion are ok, and there is an argument for including them. 40" move in a turn for spanking War Machines or small units is nothing to be sniffed at.
a. I like Scorpions
b. Scorpions are an absolute bugger to assemble, you will always use your Scorpions to justify the frustration of having put them together!!!

Bone Giants are just too expensive. If you take two and basically run them together, they can sometimes be effective, but that's ~200pts more than the other 2 combos. Even against enemies immune to panic, a Stone Thrower is still good for doing damage, but the effects of being hit by a Bone Giant can be achieved with Chariots, Heavy Horse or possibly Ushabti.

Ushabti I suppose I reject for similar reasons to the Bone Giants. You can accomplish the "small-counter attacking damage unit" (cos I can't think of a better way to phrase it) with Chariots or Heavy Horse, so why sacrifice the Special slot (and Ushabti are slower)? Granted they have a better attacks to base size ratio, but if your hitting a unit with Chariots or Heavy Horse and the Fear + Combat Res isn't enough to break the unit then:
a. you're doing something very wrong
b. you need new dice
c. they're Slayers!!!

Tomb Guard look like an elite unit, but aren't. Consider that Killing Blow is only scored on a 6 to wound, and with a standard frontage of 5, without a character you're throwing 6 attacks, and only hitting 3 times. As they are an expensive unit, most things that hit them are going to be steamroller units that won't have any trouble bypassing their T4 (a lot of knights are S6 with lances, and with WS4+ will hit you on 3s) and 4+ save. They only time you'll get max attacks will be in your magic phase if you get Righteous Smiting off. May as well save the ~4pts per model and take Skellies (who will also die horribly, but are cheaper, and realistically, are only conceding the point of T in most cases).

[Proturbo]

Well thank you very much for the help, I really appreciate it!

What about the other army I am interested in, Vampire Counts?

[Baragash]

They've been redone in the last ~6 months, so are up to date, and compare well to the other recent armies.

[Proturbo]

They've been redone in the last ~6 months, so are up to date, and compare well to the other recent armies.

I read the article in White Dwarf. Have you faced them yet? Any ideas on what is good/bad/ugly?

[Liam]

Don't take Bat Swarms, Spirit Hosts and Black Coaches, turn up with the rest painted and the the Dice Gods will see you home.

[Proturbo]

Well have decided on Vampire Counts finally. After the rule book and codex I was thinking of starting with the battalion box with some grave guard and a couple of vampires (to go with the ghouls and grave guard).

Some questions:

Zombies. I don't like the look of them as core troops. I was thinking of forgoing the zombies entirely as core choices and just using Skeletons and Ghouls, using the zombie models for when I cast things that raise new units. Is this a mistake?

I know I get a corpse cart in the battalion. Is this a good unit to use or a waste of points? It's an upgrade for a necromancer right?

Could I get some opinions on Dire Wolves, Varghulf, Banshees, and Cairn Wraths?

Does the box of Blood Knights really cost $90 (US)?

[Liam]

Zombies aren't fantastic, however are fairly cheap, don't totally discount them, try a Necromancer in the unit with the Crown of Command (iirc) and you now have Ws7 Zombies!

The Corpse Cart is a nice unit, just don't get it too near the frontline as it's not that stable, but very nice.

Dire Wolves, expendable "fast" moving troops, can't moan, they're more or less mandatory. The Vargulf isn't a unit breaker by itself, however a flying Vampire isn't a bad thing to have by itself, take one, it won't let you down, just don't expect Miricles. Banshees and her Friends however, WONDERFUL choice, fantastic at everything, 10 are in most tounament armies, if not 20 when comp isn't being used.

Hope that helps.

[Proturbo]

With the theory that I will be obtaining the money to start an army soon I planed out a rough sketch of what to buy first but had a few questions (I love my questions!)

The new Vampire Counts spearhead is out. Would buying this + some more skeletons be a better idea then buying the battalion + more skeletons, a vampire (or two), and grave guard?

How many Vampires is reasonable to have in an army?

Are Necromancers any good?

[Kilroy]

I've been told that zombies are probably better than skeletons. Considering that for 80pts you can get a fear causing unit that will hold its ground until all the zombies are dead. Just remember, for the most part, the undead core isn't particularly destructive. Now take some units of black knights (or, if you want, blood keep knights) and sweep up the flanks of the soldiers engaged against your zombies.

[zathor9]

vampire count are a good army. it can raise units to help out fighting and some of their spells are good

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

Still working on my Army Comp for Vamp Counts but I am working on and have the models for -

10 Grave Guard
10 Ghouls
10 Dire Wolves
Vampire

That's all I have right now, donno if I should do the Death Star or not (Grave Guard + many Combatty Vampires) so we'll see...

[Proturbo]

Still working on my Army Comp for Vamp Counts but I am working on and have the models for -

10 Grave Guard
10 Ghouls
10 Dire Wolves
Vampire

That's all I have right now, donno if I should do the Death Star or not (Grave Guard + many Combatty Vampires) so we'll see...

That is generally what I will be going for but with some skeletons too.

How many points would you be putting into the Grave Guard unit if you decided to do that?

[Baragash]

That's all I have right now, donno if I should do the Death Star or not (Grave Guard + many Combatty Vampires) so we'll see...

+Drakenhof Banner!

The top general at Baltimore used a Doggy Deathstar list.

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

Top Star was actually a DE list and I know the guy who played em!

Decisions, be a typical Meta Vamps as is or try something else?

[Baragash]

Top Star was actually a DE list and I know the guy who played em!

Decisions, be a typical Meta Vamps as is or try something else?

I thought the overall winner was DE, but Best General was the VC player? (Warseer has a database error right now...grrr!).

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

Ah, most likely.

Still love his Blood Cauldron he made, nekkid elf gals bathing in blood.

[Proturbo]

Ah, most likely.

Still love his Blood Cauldron he made, nekkid elf gals bathing in blood.

:eek:

Wonder how long that took....