Is this a fair fight?

[potty]

Tyranid vs sisters of battle:

Tyranid army:

3 Warriors (2 with tallons and claws, extended carapace, toxin sacs. the other with talons and deathspitter, adernal glands)

8 genestealers with extended carapace and FT

8 hormagaunts with toxin sacs
8 gaunts standard

Carnifex with barbed strangler, enhanced sences, adernal glands and tallons and slashing tail



Sisters army:

St philistine
cannoness with inferno pistol and spikey sword thingy
13 sisters with bolters.

2 storm bolter sister.

2 sister superior

2 flamer sisters

[Enigmacookie]

No. Not at all.

Give the sisters some Heavy support

[PUFNSTUF]

sisters should probably get ownt. Fex can down a bunch from afar, and if the nid player is any good his stealers will charge you without you being able to get the flamers/rapid fire off, then you will die.

[defiler15]

who ever is lucky with the dice tends to win these things. but i think tyranids would own.

[potty]

then i must just really suck at warhammer coz my tyranid army got utterly slaughtered by my GF's sister army, she wiped out my entire force and chased my carnifex all round the game board untill she finally got through its armor and killed it. i killed one of her bolter sisters and that was it.

I fail

[potty]

on top of all that, the scatter dice put my blast template over my own hormagaunt brood wiping half of it out

[Enigmacookie]

Yeah, there exists a point cost for a reason.
Let's see....

The sisters army would be around 360 pts
while the Tyranid army would be around 530 pts

see why this would be unfair?

And why was your carnifex running away?

[potty]

And why was your carnifex running away?

didnt wanna end up in close combat till i had shot off as many big blasty things as i could.... porr lil fella lost its who army, sure he is big and slobbery and mean... but that initiative 1 told him to tuck tail innit.

[Rahveel]

Tyranid vs sisters of battle:

Tyranid army:

3 Warriors (2 with tallons and claws, extended carapace, toxin sacs. the other with talons and deathspitter, adernal glands)

8 genestealers with extended carapace and FT

8 hormagaunts with toxin sacs
8 gaunts standard

Carnifex with barbed strangler, enhanced sences, adernal glands and tallons and slashing tail



Sisters army:

St philistine
cannoness with inferno pistol and spikey sword thingy
13 sisters with bolters.

2 storm bolter sister.

2 sister superior

2 flamer sisters

Lol!

but I do somewhat disagree with the other poster's. I havent bothered checking points, but I think the sisters would do well. bolter fire should be able to drop the stealers since they are not scuttleing. the warriors are still going to fall quickly, and shouldent be too much of an issue at range or in CC so long as you dont let them be supported by the gaunts or stealers.

carni will be the bigest problem. either find a way to avoid it, or take something capable of killing it.

[Durandal]

.....you are aware that if you get into CC, nothing can shoot at you, save weapons that scatter, correct? And that a fex is going to ignore armor saves?

[The Crimson Eye]

I think we can fairly assume that you are doing something wrong :P
Go Sisters !

[potty]

a fex is going to ignore armor saves?

wait... what?

[defiler15]

then i must just really suck at warhammer coz my tyranid army got utterly slaughtered by my GF's sister army, she wiped out my entire force and chased my carnifex all round the game board untill she finally got through its armor and killed it. i killed one of her bolter sisters and that was it.

I fail

no your dice fails.

[Durandal]

a fex is going to ignore armor saves?

wait... what?
Monsterous creatures ignore armor saves. so long as you hit (and staticlly, you will hit 50% of the time) every wound you caused would be an intsadeath. Like I said, CCprevents any direct shooting weapons from targeting you (not sure about flamer templates, but if you get in CC then they still cant fire em). Eqiping you fex with glands, talons, and a slashing tail and keeping him out of CC until theres little left of the aquad is kinda...couter intuitive?

[potty]

a fex is going to ignore armor saves?

wait... what?
Monsterous creatures ignore armor saves. so long as you hit (and staticlly, you will hit 50% of the time) every wound you caused would be an intsadeath. Like I said, CCprevents any direct shooting weapons from targeting you (not sure about flamer templates, but if you get in CC then they still cant fire em). Eqiping you fex with glands, talons, and a slashing tail and keeping him out of CC until theres little left of the aquad is kinda...couter intuitive?

right so your saying that if i wound with my fex's blast template then its instant death? in that case my entire brood of hormaguants shoulda bee vaporised by freindly fire lol

[Durandal]

haha, no, in CC you will be instadeathing with any wounds you cause; Sisters are T3, and you fex is S8-9 (I'm using the AoBR rulebook's summery, whihc has some typos so I'm not sure), and is ignore armor saves from being a MC. And the whole point of the scything tail t=is to be surrouded by enemy models (I just don't know if you have to choose between regular attacks or that one, or if you can do both). I'm just saying, you fex is kitted to comitently attack any group in that army, especially if you get al your other nids to support him (also, was it a squad of 13 SoBs, or were there two smaller squads?). And if the AoBR summery is correct, while you won't ignore armor, any wounds you cause would instadeath becasue it's still S7 for the fex, and an assualt weapon, allowing you to charge them after. Though, upon reflection, the only cases were instadeath would apply would be the cannoness, and maybe the Saint (not sure on the Sait's Toughness, you see).

[mephiston_2k]

If you need any help with nids give me a PM, have usually got the Codex to hand and know most of it is in my head somewhere!

Are you aware that Tyranid Warriors in a group ALL have to take the same biomorphs. Eg toxin sacs and glands. They can have differing BioWeapons but not the morphs/upgrades.

If the strength of your carnifexs gun is double the toughness of the target in question its an instant kill IF you hit them and wound? Most armies tend to still get their armour saves though when it comes to tyranid weapons.

[tone.tran]

I think a thorough read over of your rulebook and both codex's are in order. Familiarizing yourself with the rules and how the system works in terms of gameplay and points system would be very helpful.

[Steele]

then i must just really suck at warhammer coz my tyranid army got utterly slaughtered by my GF's sister army, she wiped out my entire force and chased my carnifex all round the game board untill she finally got through its armor and killed it. i killed one of her bolter sisters and that was it.

I fail

:eek:

Try learning more about the 'Nids, and their tactics. Planning would help too.

[potty]

oh oh oh!! I killed most of her army! it was just her philistine and cannoness against my fex at the end! yea sure i still got owned by an underpowered army, but its a defo improvement.

The battle unfolds as follows:

we deploy and i roll first go, i move my genestealers their free 6" and move the whole army forward, obsticles are in the way and the only model in LOS is my fex, I shoot a spectacular miss with my barbed strangler. I forget to run in my shooting phase and pass the go to the GF.

She moves her troops but still nothing can quite be shot at. she does run in the shooting phase and is still out of arms reach.

My go again, I move my whole army 6" and now my genestealers are in the 12" assault range... after another supprising miss with my Fex's barbed strangler I send my geanstelers off to intercept one battle sister unit consisting of a storm bolter, flamer, sister superior and 7 ordinary sisters. having the initiative I strike first killing two of her normal sisters.

Her go; the second battle unit are moved into firing range, right behind my genestealers. she kills 4 in her shooting phase with her flamer weapon.

anyway some other stuff happens and the main turning point was my Fex finally landed a direct hit wiping 6 of her battle sisters off the face of the map. If that hadnt have happened I would have lost alot sooner. she eventually wiped out my nids with her blessed weapon and power fists. and killed my fex with her philistine due to the fact i get no armor svaes against her blessed weapon.

Some questions do arise tho which we couldnt resolve Via the rule books and codexes etc.

Do you get armor saves against flamer templates? if so why not against blast templates? we eventually agreed that I couldnt roll saves against her flamers as we didnt know what the actual rule was.

why is my fex so crap? I cant hit naff all with it and it only gets 2 attacks in close combat against one model? when its against the philistine it just fails (sure she has to roll a 6 to wound but my GF is freakishly lucky) so in all i find my fex a bit of a let down... am i doing something wrong?

Assaulting: if only the front row of models in the unit are in range of the assault do the others in the unit follow them in too or do they stay back and loose coherrency and take morale tests etc? same goes for shooting, if one or two are in range but the rest arent does the whole unit still shoot?

when shooting into a unit with mixed models... for instance, a battle sister unit with a cannoness leading them, whos stats do we roll against? its the majoritys isnt it? so my brood of gaunts will shoot against the battle sisters stats and its up to the GF to allocate he wounds?

and just to confirm, if my initiative is greater, I only get to attack first ont he assualt, all close combat encounters with the same unit are done turn based and not via initiative?



I know I know these may seem like daft question to some of you but we really are stuggling to get to grips with the wording of the rule book. Sorry if you feel we are wasting your time, but belive me we are trying to work it out for ourselves... we just dont want to lean too much on our own understanding

[MadMage]

oh oh oh!! I killed most of her army! it was just her philistine and cannoness against my fex at the end! yea sure i still got owned by an underpowered army, but its a defo improvement.

The battle unfolds as follows:

we deploy and i roll first go, i move my genestealers their free 6" and move the whole army forward, obsticles are in the way and the only model in LOS is my fex, I shoot a spectacular miss with my barbed strangler. I forget to run in my shooting phase and pass the go to the GF.

She moves her troops but still nothing can quite be shot at. she does run in the shooting phase and is still out of arms reach.

My go again, I move my whole army 6" and now my genestealers are in the 12" assault range... after another supprising miss with my Fex's barbed strangler I send my geanstelers off to intercept one battle sister unit consisting of a storm bolter, flamer, sister superior and 7 ordinary sisters. having the initiative I strike first killing two of her normal sisters.

Her go; the second battle unit are moved into firing range, right behind my genestealers. she kills 4 in her shooting phase with her flamer weapon.

anyway some other stuff happens and the main turning point was my Fex finally landed a direct hit wiping 6 of her battle sisters off the face of the map. If that hadnt have happened I would have lost alot sooner. she eventually wiped out my nids with her blessed weapon and power fists. and killed my fex with her philistine due to the fact i get no armor svaes against her blessed weapon.

Some questions do arise tho which we couldnt resolve Via the rule books and codexes etc.

Do you get armor saves against flamer templates? if so why not against blast templates? we eventually agreed that I couldnt roll saves against her flamers as we didnt know what the actual rule was.

why is my fex so crap? I cant hit naff all with it and it only gets 2 attacks in close combat against one model? when its against the philistine it just fails (sure she has to roll a 6 to wound but my GF is freakishly lucky) so in all i find my fex a bit of a let down... am i doing something wrong?

Assaulting: if only the front row of models in the unit are in range of the assault do the others in the unit follow them in too or do they stay back and loose coherrency and take morale tests etc? same goes for shooting, if one or two are in range but the rest arent does the whole unit still shoot?

when shooting into a unit with mixed models... for instance, a battle sister unit with a cannoness leading them, whos stats do we roll against? its the majoritys isnt it? so my brood of gaunts will shoot against the battle sisters stats and its up to the GF to allocate he wounds?

and just to confirm, if my initiative is greater, I only get to attack first ont he assualt, all close combat encounters with the same unit are done turn based and not via initiative?

I know I know these may seem like daft question to some of you but we really are stuggling to get to grips with the wording of the rule book. Sorry if you feel we are wasting your time, but belive me we are trying to work it out for ourselves... we just dont want to lean too much on our own understanding

Right off the bat I need to ask if you have a codex and/or the basic rulebook? Because this is pointless if you don't. We can't give specific rules, only basic 'how it works out' type advise.

Your first mistake I notice is the 'running'. Most every tyranid has the 'fleet of claw' rule, which allows you to run and assault the same turn. Also, genestealers only have a 6" charge range and I have no idea where you're getting a 'free 6" move' from - that's a 'scout move', and you don't have that. They DO however have a rule that allows them to setup within your opponent's deployment zone after everything else (on both sides) has been deployed - but there's restrictions on it.

Deciding whether or not you get a save depends on the AP of the weapon - it it's equal to or less than your save, you are denied a chance to save. If you're in cover you get a cover save regardless of the weapon's AP value, and only a 'template' weapon like a flamer would deny your cover (or a weapon that specifically says so, like certain space marine weapons).

When shooting against ANY unit, the wounds are allocated to one model at a time (by the owner) until they all have a wound, then if there's enough wounds you allocate a second to each, then a third to each, so on and so forth. The saves are then made as allocated among models of a similar setup - ie, if you shoot a squad with a sergeant, a flamer, and three bolters and hit it say 7 times, the wounds might go something like 1 to sarg, 1 to flamer, 1 to each bolter (for 3), then another wound to two of the bolters for a total of 5 on bolters. You then make the saves against that specific model-type (ie, if a flamer fails, a flamer must be lost) and if you have more failed saves than you have of that model-type, the leftovers are wasted. Wounds in melee combat are set up the same exact way - you target a unit, not specific models.

Initiative effects assaults on every turn, and an assault continues on each players' turn until it's finished. When moving into an assault, the front models must contact - the rest follow behind congo line style and must maintain coherency. After each round of combat, there is a 'pile in' move that will allow these scragglers to move into base contact.

When shooting, all models shooting must be in range of at least one model in the target unit (those found to be outside of range cannot fire - the rest fire as usual) and the wounds can be taken from anywhere in the target unit.

As for your carnifex, if it has the scything talons it should have 3 melee attacks in close combat, 4 on the charge. You want him to move towards the enemy every turn until he reaches melee - his gun is decent, but he's a shock trooper, meant for melee (as his melee hits ignore basic armor saves and only a power fist has a real chance of hurting him). When firing his blast, are you remembering to roll two dice for the scatter and subtract his ballistic skill? So for example if you rolled a 6, you should be subtracting 3 and only scattering that much. Also, the carnifex's strength is high enough to instantly kill any sister that fails a save (instant death is double a unit's toughness), which normally wouldn't matter as most models only have a single wound to lose anyway but if you hit, say, a commander with 2-3 wounds and she fails a single save she dies outright regardless of how many wounds she's got left.

[Sinister]

The flamer, is kinda like a bolter. It has a Strength value, and an AP (armor penetration value)

Instead of rolling to hit, you put down the template. You get saves if your armor is LOWER than the AP value of the flamer. :)

Blast weapons also have a Strength and AP value. So blasts may or may not be able to save against! Depends on who your shooting etc...

:::If your shooting a ranged weapon, check the AP value. If their armor is LOWER than the AP value of the gun you are shooting. They get their armor save.

:assaulting: Check the rulebook for 'making assaults'

if your unit charges, the whole unit charges.
Its impossible for half of a unit to be out of closecombat, while the other half is in closecombat. Its either they are in, or out.
You have to stay in coherency when you charge.


and just to confirm, if my initiative is greater, I only get to attack first ont he assualt, all close combat encounters with the same unit are done turn based and not via initiative?
In every single assault phase (for both players) Both players get to attack and retaliate.

If its your turn as the tyranids and your genestealers charge her sisters, you will strike first because your initiative is higher. Then the sisters will strike back IN THAT ASSAULT PHASE!

THe next turn, (sisters turn) in the assault phase the genestealers will attack first again because of initiative, then the sisters retaliate again.

Closecombat, every player gets a chance to fight in both players turns. Who goes first is up to initiative (and cover if any)


*edit*
ahhh madmage beat me to it.

[Jobi]

we deploy and i roll first go, i move my genestealers their free 6" and move the whole army forward, obsticles are in the way and the only model in LOS is my fex, I shoot a spectacular miss with my barbed strangler. I forget to run in my shooting phase and pass the go to the GF.

Well you didn't list Scuttler on your stealers so there is no free 6" move. The only model that runs is the Fex and he shot, the others are fleet of foot (big difference).

She moves her troops but still nothing can quite be shot at. she does run in the shooting phase and is still out of arms reach.

My go again, I move my whole army 6" and now my genestealers are in the 12" assault range... after another supprising miss with my Fex's barbed strangler I send my geanstelers off to intercept one battle sister unit consisting of a storm bolter, flamer, sister superior and 7 ordinary sisters. having the initiative I strike first killing two of her normal sisters.

12" assault? They have a 6" assault. They can move 6" fleet up to D6" and assault 6"
Her go; the second battle unit are moved into firing range, right behind my genestealers. she kills 4 in her shooting phase with her flamer weapon.

anyway some other stuff happens and the main turning point was my Fex finally landed a direct hit wiping 6 of her battle sisters off the face of the map. If that hadnt have happened I would have lost alot sooner. she eventually wiped out my nids with her blessed weapon and power fists. and killed my fex with her philistine due to the fact i get no armor svaes against her blessed weapon.

She failed 6 3+ armor saves???

Some questions do arise tho which we couldnt resolve Via the rule books and codexes etc.

Do you get armor saves against flamer templates? if so why not against blast templates? we eventually agreed that I couldnt roll saves against her flamers as we didnt know what the actual rule was.

You don't get armor saves from weapons with AP value equal or lower than your armor. The sisters get a save vs. a carnifex Barbed Strangler because the BS is AP 5 and Sisters wear Power Armor, a 3+.

why is my fex so crap? I cant hit naff all with it and it only gets 2 attacks in close combat against one model? when its against the philistine it just fails (sure she has to roll a 6 to wound but my GF is freakishly lucky) so in all i find my fex a bit of a let down... am i doing something wrong?

Assaulting: if only the front row of models in the unit are in range of the assault do the others in the unit follow them in too or do they stay back and loose coherrency and take morale tests etc? same goes for shooting, if one or two are in range but the rest arent does the whole unit still shoot?

when shooting into a unit with mixed models... for instance, a battle sister unit with a cannoness leading them, whos stats do we roll against? its the majoritys isnt it? so my brood of gaunts will shoot against the battle sisters stats and its up to the GF to allocate he wounds?

and just to confirm, if my initiative is greater, I only get to attack first ont he assualt, all close combat encounters with the same unit are done turn based and not via initiative?



I know I know these may seem like daft question to some of you but we really are stuggling to get to grips with the wording of the rule book. Sorry if you feel we are wasting your time, but belive me we are trying to work it out for ourselves... we just dont want to lean too much on our own understanding

You should go to your nearest GW or LGS and get some practice against people that know the rules. It will help you out a great deal




*Edit: MadMage and Sinister beat me to it... LOL

[potty]

She failed 6 3+ armor saves???

erm, no we somehow thought you couldnt save against template weps heh, dont ask where we got this idea from, i think we just got a bit confused.

we have got every book imaginale for the game, we are just struggling to understand its wording. we is just a bit thick innit :)

we are planning to go to a GW soon but our nearst one is an hours drive away so we are waiting till pay day to go ^^. thanks for the help guys, i appreciate you all beeing patient

[zathor9]

It is an unfair match. the tyranids will win :smt067

[mephiston_2k]

Its not unfair yet....the Tyranids are yet to win!

[willydstyle]

Both players models fight in every close combat phase, in initiative order.

So for example: on your turn, your genestealers charge her sisters.

Genestealers strike first at initiative 6
Surviving sisters strike at initiative 3
Losers make morale check

opponents turn:

Opponent does moving, shooting, etc except for the unit that is locked in close combat

During your opponents close combat phase:
Genestealers strike first at initiative 6
Surviving sisters strike at initiative 3
Losers make morale check.

You continue the process until one side is dead, or one side breaks and runs away (or is cut down via sweeping advance). There are some nuances and complications, but this is the main sequence of things.

It also sounds like your genestealers got really unlucky in your game! On average, they should have hit about 21 times, and wounded about 14 times, with about 4 of those wounds offering no saving throw (due to the genestealers' rending claws), for a total of 7 dead sisters on average rolls.