CSM v. SM does chaos get out-gunned

[ajrk32]

hi all
as the title said i was wondering if my chaos army is out gunned, i know that my CSM are a little better in CC, but does that mean I also get out gunned and if i do is it enough to actually changemy CSM shooting squad>?

[mechboy]

Well you should define "outgunned".
If you mean can Loyalists put up a better gunline than Chaos, the answer is yep. However Chaos can put out atleast as many shots if not more up close and personal.

In general Chaos is a better short/medium range army than Loyalists but tend to suffer at longer range.

[Woggie_666]

Mech got it right on the money there.

Chaos are very effective are shorter range ( EC for example have have assult2 bolters) and the normal marines are also kick ass at short range and be equipped to kill anything from MC to land raiders with releative ease.

If you try and out shoot loyalists, this is possible but you lose that effectivness from close range.

[Angelofblades]

In general Chaos is a better short/medium range army than Loyalists but tend to suffer at longer range.

This.

Chaos dominate at 12-24". I should know, I regularly use the parts that dominate teh 24" category with great bliss.

Chaos are decent at long range. The defiler is a good choice so are oblits. Havocs are the same as their devastator counterparts, if you wish to use them that way, though I see them having a better use as 4x meltas, 4 x plasmas, 4 x flamers, etc. Than heavy weapons. They make an awesome medium range support unit.

You can still attempt a gunline army with chaos, although, you just don't get the same flexibility out of it. you don't get combat squads like you do with the Imperials, so you can't do 5 CSM baby sitting a heavy weapons.

What Chaos make up for lack of consistent long range, we make up for in utilities, mainly speaking, Lash of Submission. Having the power to control your opponent's army is huge, none else can boast such power.

[willydstyle]

For the monthly league at my LGS, I'm doing a Black Legion gunline this month. Tonight, I beat the pants off a doublewing player (although he did make several major strategic mistakes). We were playing Seize Ground with 5 objectives, so my troop units were high-priority targets for my opponent.

Here's the list I used:

DP with MoN, wings, warptime

This DP does not contribute to my gunline, but instead takes out CC threats to my other troops. If my opponent isn't trying to get into my lines, then my DP is fast enough and tough enough to take out important targets. Tonight he killed Samael, a Ravenwing attack squad, and a Deathwing Terminator squad after my opponent successfully engaged my units with those units

10 chaos space marines, plasma gun, autocannon.

Classic chaos space marine "tactical" squad. It got charged first turn and the lone plasma gunner that remained was destroyed on my opponents second turn by a stray plasma cannon blast.

6 Noise Marines 5x sonic blasters, blast master.

This was another high priority target for my opponent as the blast master represents a major threat for bikes and speeders. They managed to remove the weapon from one speeder before being charged by outflanking ravenwing bikers. Due to their power armor and high initiative, they were holding up fairly well, so my opponent was forced to charge them with a Deathwing squad as well. They did end up dying, however. I like using this squad in "gunline" chaos because they can put out silly amounts of anti-infantry and anti-MEQ firepower, while being able to damage most vehicles as well. They're not too tough, but they're fearless and effective on the move, so they have surprising staying power. Ideal for "home base" objectives.

10 chaos space marines, 2x melta guns

Honestly, I can't remember what happened to these guys. I think they were killed by Samael in assault, or maybe by those pesky terminators. Again, my opponent was really focusing on my troops, so they were targeted early on.

8 Havocs, 4 heavy bolters Icon chaos glory

Since these guys weren't troops, my opponent wasn't focusing much on them. They spent most of the game moving so my opponent couldn't hide a skimmer behind a hill to claim an objective.

8 havocs, 4 missile launchers Icon chaos glory

Again, they weren't troops, so my opponent didn't focus much on them. They ended up killing two land speeders which my opponent claimed were scoring.

4 terminators, 1 powerfist, 1 reaper autocannon.

These guys were awesome. They were used mostly as a counter-charge unit, much like my DP. They also killed the last landspeeder with their reaper autocannon, which I think is one of the best, most-versatile weapons in the game :)

In review: I had set up the first objective marker, and we have 5 of them, so I got to really set the pattern of objectives. I aimed for center-of-the-board objectives in clear line of sight, to maximize the capability of my heavy weapons to suppress targets on those objectives.

The thing that made the "Chaos Gunline" very effective in this particular scenario was that my opponent was very afraid of my ranged firepower (and rightly so) so he rushed into close combat with my army, but the individual chaos marine is good enough in close combat that he had a hard time getting through my guys before my Daemon Prince and Terminators could show up to help out.

At the end, I thought I was playing for a draw as my three troops units were dead, but when I dropped the last landspeeder, I realized that my terminators had also killed the last model in his army, giving me victory at the end of turn 5!