[MAFIA] Lost in the warp {TOWN WINS!} [Archive] - Page 3 - Warhammer 40k Forums

ajrk32

8th April 2009, 17:30

hmm.
i suppose that makes sence, but i cant help but feel you only unvoted me becasue you wanted me to unvote you. and now that i realize that we both are new, and your not an experienced player a suppose my argument is weakened.
i just assumed you had been doing this a while.

i belive vote count is:
Ajrk32: (2) Nova, gnome
gnome: (1) moz
Nova: (4) tree grot, doohicky, baragash

lance warrior: (2) ajrk32, Malk

Kilroy

9th April 2009, 03:38

Vote count of Vote counts...
Ajrk (2):Novasry, Gnome
Gnomesbane (1): Moz
Nova (4): Tree, Grot, Doohicky, Baragash
Lance (2): Malk, Ajrk
Not Voting (5): Sub, Tarion, Shotcoder, Lance warrior, EC

Nova is leading...
45 hours to go...
8 needed for lynch

ajrk32

9th April 2009, 04:19

Hmm, looks like "not voting" is about to be lynched (jk)

Novasry

9th April 2009, 08:44

can i get some clarification on why people are voting for me please???

Mozric

9th April 2009, 09:29

I still think Gnomes is the most lynchable here. Maybe just inactive, but we shouldn't let him get away with it.

Treehugger

9th April 2009, 14:17

My reasons havent changed Nova. You were largely inactive and then jumped in with a vote on the person who at that moment had the highest number of votes, and basicaly parroted other peoples reasons for their votes. You responded to my vote by saying that this is simply you playstyle, and sorry but that doesnt disuade me (especially since so many people use that exact excuse for not being active participants in the games).

Moz I agree, Gnomes has stayed fairly inactive even after being re-activated by Kilroy. Malk has done much the same since taking over for Lance also. Shotcoder has been fairly inactive, Doohicky I think also. This is just from memory and what "seems" correct so I could be wrong but I think im being fairly accurate. It seems that more people are sitting in the background than are trying to be active. And Im all for lynching lurkers, everyone knows that. I think its good for the game as a whole to show people that it is not a safe way to play. But I dont think I can switch my vote to a lurker when there is articulable reason to vote for someone else (who also was also fairly inactive).

Subzero

9th April 2009, 16:17

I think we should lynch ajrk and have the vig/possible serial killer kill Malk or vice versa. ajrk's recent use of "I'm innocent so you should all stop voting for me" arguments doesn't show him in a positive light.

Here's a list of people I'm currently suspicious of:
Malk: lurking, inherited the role of a lurker
Grotfang: Defending Lancewarrior (on the basis that we shouldn't suspect people on the basis of the previous player's actions) and Boltrig (saying that we shouldn't lynch him because he's a lurker and therefore apparently no threat) - of course Bolt has now been replaced by Malk
Gnomesbane and Shotcoder - both haven't been too active lately. Shotcoder was focussing on pressure-voting on lurkers despite the fact that we're on day 3, but when it came to Gnomesbane he simply pointed out that Gnomes was lurking but didn't vote for him (although he voted for the other lurkers). Gnomes posted 5 hours after this, but has claimed that this is a coincidence.

Subzero

9th April 2009, 16:18

Vote: ajrk by the way.

Gnomesbane

9th April 2009, 16:53

I don't have much else to say, tbh. I came back, expressed my opinions on things, voted for Ajrk, and that is where my vote stands. I see nothing else right now to make me change my mind, and I would rather post nothing than just. "My thoughts are still the same." Simply for the sake of posting.

MalkThe2nd

9th April 2009, 17:09

Franky, there has been nothing of content going on since I posted

With pretty much just ajrk, nova, and lance going back and forth, and a bunch of talk about lurkin while I was sleepin

Granted now that I look at the time of my last post it's been a good while, but I just don't want to parrot the last page

My vote stands

I like sub's plan, except I'm kinda partial the kill me part of it :smt009

Doesn't seem like much more needs to be said this day phase.

I've seen lots of talking, but how much has been added to the convo? Little to none.

LanceWarrior

9th April 2009, 17:11

@ Sub: Why should the vigilante/serial killer kill Malk and Malk specifically?

Tarion'Maseth

9th April 2009, 17:16

@ Sub: Why should the vigilante/serial killer kill Malk and Malk specifically?
Malk: lurking, inherited the role of a lurker I think the point is that the lurking isn't a player specific thing, if both of them are doing it. Means they need to stay under the radar for some reason.

Can't disagree with it.

LanceWarrior

9th April 2009, 17:22

MalkThe2nd

9th April 2009, 17:25

*kicks bolt* Why couldn't I inherit something cool, like a mini-van.

I'm not going to try and justify not posting enough further, as I agree it has been far too long since my previous. All I can do is promise to get into the game more and post my feelings more often

shotcoder

9th April 2009, 17:55

I'm sorry with my inactivity of late, trying to get my Heavyweight AoD started.

Sub, you can't use posting times in this game as a basis for an assumption, I tried a few games ago and it led to the lynching of an innocent, and then the lynching of me next turn which I was an innocent in that game as well.

I seriously have no idea who to vote for at this point in the game. We have a group of new players trying to defend themselves from the almost mason group of the most of experienced and deducing players. I just see something wrong with that.

Kilroy

9th April 2009, 22:02

Vote count of Vote counts...
Ajrk (3): Novasry, Gnome, Sub
Gnomesbane (1): Moz
Nova (4): Tree, Grot, Doohicky, Baragash
Lance (2): Malk, Ajrk
Not Voting (4): Tarion, Shotcoder, Lance warrior, EC

Nova is leading...
29 hours to go...
8 needed for lynch

Grotfang

10th April 2009, 02:11

Here's a list of people I'm currently suspicious of:

Grotfang: Defending Lancewarrior

Wtf?

So, I am suspicious because I defended Lancewarrior, but for some reason Lancewarrior isn't on your suspicious list?!

If you don't think that Lancewarrior is suspicious, and btw I agree with you, then why am I suspicious for defending him? If you do think he is mafia, then obviously my sticking up for him would be suspicious, but surely it would make more sense to target him first, before leaping two steps in your assumptions and going for me.

Grotfang

10th April 2009, 02:15

EDIT:

By the way, I do realise sub didn't vote for me. However, his line of logic is one that does have a tendency to irritate me as it is simply following a trail of assumptions far further than is really justifiable. I'm all for trying to spot groups of people, and I have no objection to sub seeing me as part of a colluding band of players, it's just it seems to be based on an assumption of his that Lance Warrior is suspicious. Therefore in my eyes it makes more sense to act on those initial suspicions instead of arguing a position based on untested assumptions.

Doohicky

10th April 2009, 07:40

Sorry if people think I haven't been posting enough, but I feel I have said all that needs to be said with my suspicions. Re-itterating the same thing over and over does not make it more important.

And on another note Treehugger. I checked back about 6 or 7 pages (Until Sunday) and it looks to me as if I have posted more than you have. But I understand your post was simply what you perceived, just pointing out that posts can be overlooked and it may seem that someone is not posting when they are.

Finally,
Whilst we have done well in coming up with a group of people we all agree are probably innocent, we are going round in circles when it comes to who is mafia. Discussion is good, but dallying is not in my opinion. Novasry and Ajrk32 are the people I am most suspicious of and that is who I am for lynching (Novasry is my vote so far).

Too many people are getting splinters in their arse sitting on the fence and need to post where they stand.

Enigmacookie

10th April 2009, 09:23

(first of all, been reading the forums from a cell phone lately, so sorry for inactivity)

I think we might have focused to much on Ajrk32 and Nov lately guys. Both Doohicky and Grotfang strike me as immediately suspicious, though I really can't put my finger on it. I think the "confirmed" innocent group should pick someone to lynch, and then the 4/5 of us should all vote for that guy.

Are we certain, by the way, that all of us really are innocent? I mean, we could have a mafia inspector, mafia voice man, heck we could even have a mafia doctor (even though I've only heard of that happen in Tree's last game).

Anyways, as I've said before, Sub is safe this night, so that probably means that theres a 50/50 chance that either Baragash or I die tonight. So, Sub will hopefully be able to confirm Bara's role, (and bara confirm Subs, if Baragash survives)..

Am I on the right track?

Subzero

10th April 2009, 09:32

Grotfang: yarr, LanceWarrior should be on there as well for his vague but very convenient roleclaim that basically means he can accuse anyone trying to lynch him of being anti-town.

EC: I don't think that I can confirm Baragash, because my role doesn't do anything other than investigate (so in other words I wouldn't detect anything he does). However, Baragash should be able to confirm me - if he doesn't, I'd say something fishy is going on.

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 21:08

MalkThe2nd

10th April 2009, 21:19

Well, in the case of one mafia voting for another, I can see it as distancing themself from the condemned.

As far as Nova goes, that could mean anything from a serial killer to just a survivor.

One thing is certain though, if we all don't come up with a majority soon this'll be a deadline lynch.

We still have 3 more people abstaining, for whatever reasons...

Enigmacookie

10th April 2009, 21:22

vote:lancewarrior
Trying to slip away by voting on nov, and generally gives me a bad feeling. Voting now, in case I don't get another chance before the night, as I'm using a phone atm.

Novasry

10th April 2009, 21:44

yarr, LanceWarrior should be on there as well for his vague but very convenient roleclaim that basically means he can accuse anyone trying to lynch him of being anti-town.

Can I ask why this would be a bad thing? If I was anti-town I wouldn't want to go around telling others to lynch Mafia members.

Anyways - voting:

Hmm, I'm sure I read on a previous page about Nova having some different objectives to someone else (Grotfang was it?). So doesn't this mean Nova's playing for himself? So i'm going to:

Vote: Novasry - for the above reasons.

you misunderstood Lance... my victory conditions state that i win if all threats tot he town are removed, while the others do not state that specifically... i did mention this earlier

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 21:46

yarr, LanceWarrior should be on there as well for his vague but very convenient roleclaim that basically means he can accuse anyone trying to lynch him of being anti-town.

Can I ask why this would be a bad thing? If I was anti-town I wouldn't want to go around telling others to lynch Mafia members.

Anyways - voting:

Hmm, I'm sure I read on a previous page about Nova having some different objectives to someone else (Grotfang was it?). So doesn't this mean Nova's playing for himself? So i'm going to:

Vote: Novasry - for the above reasons.

Right, I wasn't sure what your conditions said, now tis all clear so:

Unvote: Novasry

you misunderstood Lance... my victory conditions state that i win if all threats tot he town are removed, while the others do not state that specifically... i did mention this earlier

Novasry

10th April 2009, 21:50

Type Fail...?

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 21:59

Type Fail...?

Type fail big style - let's try this again:

yarr, LanceWarrior should be on there as well for his vague but very convenient roleclaim that basically means he can accuse anyone trying to lynch him of being anti-town.

Can I ask why this would be a bad thing? If I was anti-town I wouldn't want to go around telling others to lynch Mafia members.

Anyways - voting:

Hmm, I'm sure I read on a previous page about Nova having some different objectives to someone else (Grotfang was it?). So doesn't this mean Nova's playing for himself? So i'm going to:

Vote: Novasry - for the above reasons.

you misunderstood Lance... my victory conditions state that i win if all threats tot he town are removed, while the others do not state that specifically... i did mention this earlier

Ahh, right. I wasn't sure so you know - always better to query something first. So in light of this knowledge I has just gained:

Unvote: Novasry

--------------------------------

That's better.

Mozric

10th April 2009, 22:31

I don't like using this metagaming sort of getting-around-the-pm-quoting rule, but since Novasry and Lance have started it again...

Like Tree's, my PM does not say anything about threats "removed" or "defeated". Uses another word.

But I suspect that maybe Kilroy varied up "that word" to screw with us.

My feeling now is that Novasry and Lancewarrior are mafia members playing around here and trying to either avoid a lynch of Nova or absolve Lancewarrior of innocence. Just seems strange...

Unvote: Gnomes
Vote: Nova

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 22:36

Like Tree's, my PM does not say anything about threats "removed" or "defeated". Uses another word.

But I suspect that maybe Kilroy varied up "that word" to screw with us.

I thinks Moz is right. (Darn you Kilroy).

Mozric

10th April 2009, 22:40

anyways, i just remembered my reason for posting... I'm going away this weekend, back on monday, so I'm going to miss the day phase deadline.

Might leave my vote on Nova though.

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 22:43

anyways, i just remembered my reason for posting... I'm going away this weekend, back on monday, so I'm going to miss the day phase deadline.

Am I not right in thinking it's about 3 hours away?

shotcoder

10th April 2009, 22:50

Vote: LanceWarrior

I'm going to have to start trusting Sub here I guess, hopefully he pulls up something useful with his night investigation, and also Baragash...which hopefully can prove Sub with his watching ability.

I have no real reason to vote for Lance besides the fact the EC's Reasoning seemed pretty sound and then he withdrew it. Not much to go on.

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 22:52

For no other reason than to keep myself alive:

Vote: Novasry

LanceWarrior

10th April 2009, 23:32

I feel I should add some content to my previous post.

I'm voting Novasry for these reasons:

- I'm perilously close to being lynched, the best thing I can do to help myself and the town, is to keep the player who I know is pro-town alive.

Currently I don't know Nova's role; I don't think he has role-claimed, but I do know i'm pro-town - even if most of you don't believe me, I know i'm pro-town. Therefore the best thing I can do to help the town is to keep the only player who I 100% know is pro-town alive out of me and Novasry, and that player is me.

Kilroy

11th April 2009, 01:41

Vote count of Zombays!...
Ajrk (3): Novasry, Gnome, Sub
Nova (6): Tree, Grot, Doohicky, Baragash, Moz, Lancewarrior
Lance (4): Malk, Ajrk, EC, Shotcoder
Not Voting (1): Tarion

Nova is leading...
1 1/2 hours to go... If you want to make changes, do it soon...
8 needed for lynch

Just interested... Would people like to shrink down the time for night phase?

Kilroy

11th April 2009, 03:10

Novasry has been lynched... Death scene when I can get a hold of my normal computer which should be on Monday or Tuesday...

Subzero

11th April 2009, 08:23

I think 72 hours is probably a bit too long; 48 hours works is long enough for people to talk (if they have those kinds of roles) and make decisions about who to target whilst being short enough that people can tolerate it.

Enigmacookie

11th April 2009, 10:37

Arghhh......we took down Nov? God..

Anyways, 72 hours is too much, I agree. 48 hours work better.

LanceWarrior

11th April 2009, 10:55

I also agree 48 hours should be long enough for the night phases.

Gnomesbane

11th April 2009, 16:40

I agree with the 48 hour sentiment. 72 is just WAY too long. That's part of the reason I forgot about this game, actually.

MalkThe2nd

11th April 2009, 16:54

Even moreso with this "twilight" phase, anyone that needs another 72 after we get a death scene I declare a slacker.
Here's a question, does night end if everything has been acted on, or does it still go the full time?

Novasry

11th April 2009, 20:15

...no PM kilroy, i think i atleast deserve that...

good game guys, lance, i did role claim, im a Quater master, no skills... bye guys :P

Doohicky

12th April 2009, 13:23

I think night always goes on full length o stop people trying to see who is Mafia by who was online when the new turn starts.

Baragash

12th April 2009, 14:04

That's why I switch to permanently hidden about 6 months back :roll:

Enigmacookie

12th April 2009, 15:39

That's why I switch to permanently hidden about 6 months back :roll:

Not hidden to everyone....

BWAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAH

>_>

*will not sink to that level*

*realises he already has*

<_<

MalkThe2nd

12th April 2009, 15:52

LoL, and didn't you say you were about to post DA's hidden lurk at one point?

Just don't use your powers for evil :P

LanceWarrior

12th April 2009, 15:56

I think night always goes on full length o stop people trying to see who is Mafia by who was online when the new turn starts.

Hmm never thought about this before. But you would expect most (if not all) people to be involved in a Mafia game to logging in once or more every 72 hours.

MalkThe2nd

12th April 2009, 15:58

Besides, this a big forum... saying so-and-so was online before night was over just seems like grabbing straws to me

LanceWarrior

12th April 2009, 15:59

ajrk32

12th April 2009, 20:44

Just thought you should know im back.
Was celebrating passover with all the family and missed the last few days or so.
Imho, 42hr nite phase is good, and the stratagy to look who was on when nite phase ends is bad.

Novasry

12th April 2009, 21:11

dammit Kilroy.. HOW DO I DIE!!!

Subzero

12th April 2009, 22:29

Besides, this a big forum... saying so-and-so was online before night was over just seems like grabbing straws to me

Yeah. Plus if all the people in the Mafia game log it'd be funny (ZOMG!!! They all signed in, they all ust be Mafia...wait so did I....?)
If the night phase ends when all night actions are received then people could check who else was online during the phase if it was short, and even if it was long enough that most people would have been online during the phase at some point people would still be able to determine who probably sent the last night choice in.

LanceWarrior

12th April 2009, 23:08

Kilroy

13th April 2009, 21:04

Novasry returned to his room from the washroom. He was a little confused as to why the others would think he was one of those crazy's. After all, he was the ship's Quartermaster. He opened the door to his room and turned on the lights. All the others were there. "We're sorry Novasry, but this must be done" Said Mozric. Novasry's heart filled with panic. What was going on? Where they here to kill him? The answer to that question was soon solved when Grotfang pulled out a handgun and shot him three times in the chest. The pain was excruciating, and he watched unable to act or react, as they left his room and he slowly died.

It is now night 3

Novasry

13th April 2009, 21:18

dmn... couldn't i have gone down fighting???

scythes

13th April 2009, 21:30

Join me nova...

OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOo!!!!

Kilroy

15th April 2009, 19:46

You all wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of gunfire and horrified screams. You make your way towards the source of the sounds, which appears to be the crude guard post put up by Treehugger to keep watch over the entrances. You find two bodies sprawled on the floor in a pool of blood. One of them, covered in poxes and sores, is none other than Gnomesbane. Mozric points out that he has a similar demeanor to the plague daemons of the warp. You realise he must be a Pet to the angel of Disease . It appears that he was shot several times through the head. The second body is that of Treehugger, the Guard. He has been slain by, what appears to be an axe blow to the head. You look at each other and wonder who will die next.

Mozric

16th April 2009, 01:10

So, I guess it was obvious to everybody else that Treehugger was the Vigiliante?
Surprising that they targeted him rather than the doctor... there may be some foul play afoot, but I guess I'm waiting for Sub/Gashabara's results.

Tarion! You forgot to confirm you were the astropath :P

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 08:25

Pardon my ignorance, but how do you know he was the vigilante? Is it because he was a guard or was it something else?

In a game like this I would have thought a guard would be more of a Doctor role. You know guarding people as they sleep?

But the person who claimed doctor sort of makes that seem unlikely.

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 08:29

Wait Gnomesbane died as well? And he was Mafia, who killed him?

Enigmacookie

16th April 2009, 08:29

I really did not see that Treehugger was vigilante. How did you spot that, Moz?

I knew I should've protected Tree another night :/

Subzero

16th April 2009, 08:49

Nah, the fact that the Vigilante killed a lurker the first night around, and what Baragash said made it relatively clear to me that Tree was the Vigilante. Again we see that a relatively lurker-ish person has died.

As for ze results, I'd like Bara to go first.

In any case,

Vote: Shotcoder

for now. On day 1 you didn't really make any serious points against anyone, choosing to echo other people's suspicions (whilst always pointing out that it was their idea). One of your 2 votes was for Boltrig when it looked like he would get lynched.

On Day 2 you didn't post much and when you did it was to point out that you were getting away with lurking, then suggest that we lynch other lurkers instead of you.

On Day 3 you defended ajrk and continually tried to cast doubt on the 4 people who had roleclaimed despite the fact that 2 of the claims were solid and the other 2 had already been admitted to need testing, which we did last night. You also continued your voting for lurkers, except the one lurker that you didn't vote for was Gnomesbane even though you pointed out his inactivity. I'm going to assume it was a total coincidence that he posted so shortly after you reminded everyone (and him) that he was gone.

There are other people I'm currently suspicious of, and I'm still not entirely sure about the sanity of my role.

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 09:43

Tarion! You forgot to confirm you were the astropath :P

Hmm, he did. I realise we would have all known it was Tarion - but it would have been better to be sure.

Baragash

16th April 2009, 09:55

Nah, the fact that the Vigilante killed a lurker the first night around, and what Baragash said made it relatively clear to me that Tree was the Vigilante. Again we see that a relatively lurker-ish person has died.

Yes, I may have been indirectly responsible for Tree's death (TBH I thought I pretty much spelled it out). Also, Tree didn't kill anyone the first night (speculation: one of us is bullet-proof, I reckon there's enough info to guess who it is, whether they will claim is up to them).

As for ze results, I'd like Bara to go first.

I watched EC, he did protect Sub and hs does have the ability to protect people.

Why did I do this?
I figured the Mafia would need to get Sub out the way ASAP, and so would be predictable and go Sub then EC, bagging us two consecutive Mafia through watching. It's a shame they didn't really as we potentially could have bagged 3 by tomorrow morning with Tree's kill. This does suggest that the current shortlist is broadly accurate as they may have been worried Tree would start hitting them as he worked his way through the list.

There are other people I'm currently suspicious of, and I'm still not entirely sure about the sanity of my role.

Why?

Enigmacookie

16th April 2009, 10:14

Vote: Baragash

I protected him this night phase, not Sub

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 10:16

I protected him this night phase, not Sub

If EC's telling the truth then Baragash has been lieing, so:

Vote: Baragash

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 10:17

I would suggest that Sub starts targettin us unknowns in the night phase as that (in my opinion) will be most likely to find a Mafia andtherefore most likely for you to get a non- town result.

Hopefully if you get a non town result that would show your sanity and get us a mafia too.

Baragash> Why did you not watch Sub?
Doing so could have got us two as close to absolute townies as possible.

You could confirm that Sub had investigated and when you say WHO he investigated it would have allowed Sub to confirm you watched him.

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 10:19

Saw Enigma's post. That would explain why you didn't watch sub. Because you couldn't!

Vote: Baragash

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 10:20

One thing to decide though:

Who's lying - Baragash or EC?

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 10:34

If EC is lying he has committed suicide. We can lynch him the next day if that is the case.

On another note, did sub already investigate Baragash? If so and he came up as townie then it may seem that Sub is a naive cop. But I could be wrong in my memory. Sub can say for sure.

Baragash

16th April 2009, 10:36

Baragash> Why did you not watch Sub?
Doing so could have got us two as close to absolute townies as possible.

FFS, this again, do people take stupid pills before opening Mafia topics? I did actually answer this question.

I protected him this night phase, not Sub

Clever, I was expecting Sub to double-cross me.

Saw Enigma's post. That would explain why you didn't watch sub. Because you couldn't!

Funnily enough that's not true.

If EC's telling the truth then Baragash has been lying

Actually 99% of what've said has been true.

Yes, well done, I'm Mafia, now can someone please kill my butt because I am really fed up with this particular game.

(No, the fact that I'm Mafia doesn't in any way invalidate my first comment).

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 10:50

Jeez, getting a bit angsty there.

For the record I read your explanation, but felt it was not a very good explanation and wanted a proper reason.

And now you are throwing out vibes that Sub is your Mafia . (Saying he would double cross you and then saying you can see what he is doing, which makes me think you were a partner of his)

Is this to throw us off and make us lynch a cop or are you really trying to get your fellow Mafia killed.

Baragash

16th April 2009, 11:01

Jeez, getting a bit angsty there.

We'll just have to wait for the post-game evaluation won't we....

For the record I read your explanation, but felt it was not a very good explanation and wanted a proper reason.

Fine, in which case, since this is the second game you've done that to me (Ashbury II), try in future to have the courtesy to address my points.

Let's assume for the moment:
a. you don't know I'm Mafia
b. as pretty much everyone was expecting EC to die tonight and Sub to die tomorrow, how is "I could have watched and caught two Mafia" a poor reason? Which would have given the town 3 Mafia in two days. Does that really constitute "not a very good reason", and can you honestly say "yes" and keep a straight face?

And now you are throwing out vibes that Sub is your Mafia . (Saying he would double cross you and then saying you can see what he is doing, which makes me think you were a partner of his)

Is this to throw us off and make us lynch a cop or are you really trying to get your fellow Mafia killed.

Err, cos like, I'm going to answer that aren't I :roll: :roll: :roll:

Baragash

16th April 2009, 11:03

Try in future to have the courtesy to address my points.

IE why is it not a very good reason/a proper explanation.

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 11:22

Since everyone expected EC to die tonight there would have been no chance for corraboration of your role until a lynch was carried out against the person you had pointed out.

Yes that would hopefully have been a Mafia member, but after that they would never have targetted sub the next night. They would have seen you were able to point them out and took you out of it.

Corraborating that you and Sub were certain townies was the plan that I had read and would have helped the town. Also you could have then used your watching skills to watch sub on the second night to get us the Mafia just like your reasoning for last nights watch.

So watching sub twice would have done everything watching EC did plus corraborating that yourself and Sub were town.

Of course you being Mafia now makes all that moot, but there you go.

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 11:33

To be honest Bara - I think this is fairly bad on your part. Ok you're Mafia, but there is no point to have a tantrum for some reason.

Subzero

16th April 2009, 11:44

I actually investigated Lancewarrior. The trick was going to be that Baragash (assuming he targeted Mozzie) would only say that I didn't target Mozzie if he was telling the truth about his role, because every other option would lead to his death. The end result would be that we would have myself probably still in limbo (but with an innocent result on Lancewarrior), Lancewarrior confirmed and Baragash almost confirmed. Lancewarrior came up innocent despite the fact that his roleclaim was suspicious, which is the reason I'm not entirely sure of my sanity. Anyway assuming Baragash is Mafia it seems like he may be trying to bring me down with him.

Unvote
Vote: Baragash

Still suspicious of Shot though.

Tarion'Maseth

16th April 2009, 11:45

Vote: Baragash

Yeah, didn't confirm my role. Should be pretty obvious, but I'll throw a shout out tonight.

Mozric

16th April 2009, 12:01

So Baragash screwed up twice... Because both Sub and EC were being sneaky :lol:

It makes me wonder if Baragash has any other sort of mafia role, as if he's just a vanilla mafia this'd be a very risky roleclaim for him to make for this very reason.

Vote: Baragash

I'm a little disappointed about the tantrum here, hell, if Baragash had spoke more hesitantly I would have suspected that perhaps Sub or EC were mafia, and he was being framed.

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 12:11

I actually investigated Lancewarrior.

Woo i'm popular!

(but with an innocent result on Lancewarrior), Lancewarrior confirmed and Baragash almost confirmed. Lancewarrior came up innocent despite the fact that his roleclaim was suspicious

Owp, maybe not.

I'm all for Sub's sanity being Sane after his results - from the people he has investigated they've all come up innocent IIRC and they've all been innocent.

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 12:15

He could be a Naive cop, but hopefuly not.

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 12:18

He could be a Naive cop, but hopefuly not.

That's the other thing because the problem is he hasn't investigated any Mafia yet.

Just a question, would there be any point of a Mafia cop, as they would already know who's on their side (and therefore who isn't?). So if the above is true (I don't know) then I think it does pretty much gurantee Sub is pro-town.

Baragash

16th April 2009, 12:22

Since everyone expected EC to die tonight there would have been no chance for corraboration of your role until a lynch was carried out against the person you had pointed out.

I would speculate with some confidence that if the scenario of EC dying had occurred and I said "I watched him and X did it", the logic that would have been applied would have been "believe Baragash and if it isn't true we'll lynch him the next night".

Doohicky, a bit further up: "If EC is lying he has committed suicide. We can lynch him the next day if that is the case."

At least by you.

Yes that would hopefully have been a Mafia member, but after that they would never have targetted sub the next night. They would have seen you were able to point them out and took you out of it.

So you're seriously suggesting Watcher > Cop. That doesn't remotely stand up. Sub gets definite information, I get information of actions taken by a person and against them assuming they can actually make one. Not a contest.

So watching sub twice would have done everything watching EC did plus corraborating that yourself and Sub were town.

False. It would have netted us one Mafia, and confirmation of Sub's role, which we would have got when he died the second time anyway. My way. My way would have got us two Mafia. My way was better.

@Moz: I can accept Lance's comment on the basis that he's new, but I really didn't expect that from you.

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 12:38

There is no point continuing this as I don't agree with your points at all and you obviously don't agree with mine.
Seeing as the point is moot now continuing this disagreement does nothing.

(One I do agree with is your first point and that was what I was saying. Just obviously not very well.

Targetting sub = 2 power roles confirmed at start of day phase.
Targetting EC = Your role confirmed + us lynching Mafia, but not until the end of the day phase.

And yes you being able to point out Mafia every night as you planned would make you more powerful than the cop role as he still hasn't been confirmed as being able to find Mafia

Baragash

16th April 2009, 12:53

There is no point continuing this as I don't agree with your points at all and you obviously don't agree with mine.
Seeing as the point is moot now continuing this disagreement does nothing.

You're probably right, but for the wrong reasons. As I have substantially more in-game information than you, you'll just have to accept I'm right and we can talk about it after the game.

Targetting sub = 2 power roles confirmed at start of day phase.
Targetting EC = Your role confirmed + us lynching Mafia, but not until the end of the day phase.

Targeting Sub = 2 power roles confirmed if we aren't Mafia together, one whom then dies over night. And one Mafia bagged.

Targeting EC = 2 power roles confirmed (Sub by his death over night). Two Mafia bagged. Or I die and Sub gets another investigation.

At worst we score the same (if I die), otherwise I win by a point. Timing is irrelevant as you already agreed directly and indirectly that "trust Baragash" would have worked.

And yes you being able to point out Mafia every night as you planned would make you more powerful than the cop role as he still hasn't been confirmed as being able to find Mafia

So, if he found one, what would he do..."trust Sub". Also, that's just plain wrong, but I'll have to explain why after the game is over.

Subzero

16th April 2009, 13:01

Lance, there are such roles as Mafia Cops. They're generally independent of their Mafia group and are generally more useful in games with multiple opposed anti-town groups. In games with only one anti-town group (such as AP II, which is one of the 2 times a Mafia Cop has been used here I believe) they still function but instead as a slightly weaker form of Mafioso (probably won't have intentional connections to the Mafia but they don't have a nightkill and may end up killed by the Mafia).

On Baragash, as far as I'm aware your role is something like the following:

You watch player X.
Player X is roleblocked by player Y and investigated by player Z
Player X protects player W.

You are told that X protected W, and that they themselves were roleblocked and investigated (but not by whom). Is this correct? If so your role is easily on par with an unconfirmed-Sanity Cop, given that you're basically a simultaneous combination of a Tracker and a variant on a Watcher. Sanity variants for those kinds of roles are quite hard to create, so your sanity would be effectively confirmed if you had that role.

Baragash

16th April 2009, 13:05

Sub: nice try, I'm not answering that question until after the game. :)

Treehugger

16th April 2009, 13:53

OOooOooOoooooOOoo!
::rattles chains::

LanceWarrior

16th April 2009, 13:56

OOooOooOoooooOOoo!
::rattles chains::

*Calls Ghostbusters*

Now we're fairly certain now that Baragash is Mafia, so who else is suspected? And how many Mafia do we expect? The game started with 18 players so what - 4 mafia? And one's already dead, with another fairly certain to die soon.

Subzero

16th April 2009, 13:58

I would expect 3 Mafiosi with some kind of ability or abilities beyond the standard or 4 standard Mafiosi.

By the way, it's been pointed out to me that Baragash has already been lynched (EC, Lance, Doohicky, myself, Tarion and Mozzie voted for him - that's 6 out of 11) so we should probably stop talking.

Doohicky

16th April 2009, 14:04

4 Mafia (maybe), Chaos game...

Could it maybe be that there is a 'follower' of each God? This could mean the Mafia are fighting each other as much as us. Maybe they have win conditions of trying to capture and turn us as much as kill us?

Would that explain how no one was killed earlier. That they can recruit maybe?

Maybe Baragash DID have that power and was possessed/recruited making him Mafia and causing him to lose his original role.

I know this is all VERY far fetched, but I believe it is not outside the realms of possibility.

What think you all?

MalkThe2nd

16th April 2009, 15:21

Wow a whole lot happened fast!

Well since it's technically night I really shouldn't be saying anything?

Sorry I wasn't on sooner guys :smt012

Subzero

16th April 2009, 16:10

EC, you had better protect me tonight :/

Enigmacookie

16th April 2009, 16:18

EC, you had better protect me tonight :/

OHshit....it's night already...
:wink:

Grotfang

16th April 2009, 20:55

Purely to have shown my face this day phase...

Vote: Baragash!

ajrk32

17th April 2009, 19:53

Im Confused.
call me names or what ever but all these arguments make me go silly!
can i get a recap cuz i dont get much exept that BAra is mafia and I was wrong about Lance (sorry)

Mozric

18th April 2009, 08:29

...

Kilroy?

Yeah, and I still don't get exactly what Baragash is arguing. I guess he's implying that Sub is a fellow mafia or something...
Remember people that there are very few 100% confirmed innocents. I wasn't sure about Treehugger even, I thought he may have been a serial killer.

Subzero could possibly have been mafia along with Baragash, and they were planning to "cross-verify". Of course if Sub were mafia he'd know who the innocents were. Just because Sub is lynching Baragash doesn't prove he's innocent. In addition he revealed his "double crossing" of Baragash after EC did, so it could have been a quick fabrication after he knew Baragash was screwed.

Now I think it's likely that Sub is actually a Cop (possibly Naive)... i'm not accusing him or anything, but I'd like people to keep this in mind.

Also Tarion could possibly be a Mafia Announcer. Improbable, yes, impossible, no. In fact IMO an Announcer role is more interesting when given to the Mafia rather than the Town.

Subzero

18th April 2009, 11:54

Mafia Announcer is possible especially if I'm Insane or (more likely) Naive. I briefly looked at this earlier - we may have a Mafia Doctor and a Mafia Announcer - but that was from the perspective of being Insane. If I'm Naive then it opens up the door to a lot of things.

In any case, although we have Tarion's roleclaim of Astropath (via the first message) we can't confirm it, and he talked about his alignment in terms of the colour the name is revealed in after death. He could have simply told us that he was pro-town. It just seems like a strange comment to make.

On a very much related note, I went back and checked the PMs and I found that the result I got on Tarion was that his 'soul is clean' and a few other things that suggest that he's non-corrupted, but the results I got for EC and Lancewarrior are both that they're 'strong', in the colour green. I don't know whether this is actually indicative of a) my role changing, b) the two results being for different alignments or c) Kilroy changing the result type arbitrarily for the same alignment. It might be the case that Tarion's a Godfather-type role if that's true, which just makes things even more complicated. There are also things like Framers and Hackers...but let's leave those until we actually have some more evidence.

Anyway, currently I have reason to suspect everyone, but I'm going to go with grotfang and shot right now.

EC, protect me tonight. I know what I'm going to do, and it should at least resolve some of these questions.

Mozric

18th April 2009, 13:16

Sub: the different results may not be for different alignments but for different strength of ability. Kilroy may identify weak roles like Innocents (and Announcers) I guess as "soul is clean" and stronger roles like doctors as "strong".

Doohicky

18th April 2009, 13:43

I think the whole different results may be something linked to my earlier theory.

Maybe people can be corrupted and join the Chaos mafia dependent on their corruptibility.
Instead of a kill the Mafia can attempt to turn people. Some can never be turned, some may have a small chance and some may have a high chance.
I know none of this really helps at the moment, but it could be worth considering.
It would make sense that being lost in the warp people become susceptible to the call of chaos.

shotcoder

18th April 2009, 18:00

Alright I didn't post because I thought it was the night phase and thought Baragash was being lynched. But since Kilroy hasn't announced the night yet...

Vote: Baragash

And Sub, I thought you had only 3 investigation abilities....why do you need protected again?

Subzero

18th April 2009, 20:40

I never mentioned anything about 3 shots, at least not that I recall, which makes your post just seem like an attempt to get protection off of me.

shotcoder

18th April 2009, 20:43

Kilroy

18th April 2009, 21:44

Just so its clear, only the colour of any investigation result really matters...

Vote count of Sandwhich
Baragash (8): Enigma, Lance Warrior, Doohicky, Sub, Tarion, Moz, Grotfang, Shotcoder

Needed for lynch: 6

Baragash is dead... Death scene coming up later...

ajrk32

18th April 2009, 21:51

wow that was quick.

Subzero

19th April 2009, 00:56

I never mentioned anything about 3 shots, at least not that I recall, which makes your post just seem like an attempt to get protection off of me.

I swear you said somewhere that you would use your LAST investigation on Baragash(which you didn't) and that is 3 investigations total....please if I have misread you posts do tell me.
I have never said anything about investigating Baragash, or about a last investigation in the context of having a limited number of investigations. Again, this seems like an attempt to draw protection off of me with blatant lies. Additionally the reason I didn't act as I said I would was because I wanted to test whether Baragash was pro-town or not whilst also investigating another player. EC's own actions, assuming he's telling the truth and not in on it, led to a much more rapid uncovering of Baragash's guilt, however.

shotcoder

19th April 2009, 01:17

Doohicky

19th April 2009, 10:36

Fellas, It has been announced Night phase. Let's leave discussion until day time.

Kilroy

19th April 2009, 23:37

The others approach Baragash realising that they had been double-crossed. "No..." said Baragash "You don't realise what you're doing! I'm one of you!" However hard he tried this hardly stayed the hand of his former comrades. Blue fire glowed in his eyes. He started to rise in the air "Oh, Great Changer!" He cried "Smite the foes of yours with the holy fire of-" He was hit in the face by a las bolt and he fell to the ground, dead. It was apparent he was a Minion of the angel of change. They left for their rooms. They were too tired for anymore of this stuff...

Novasry

22nd April 2009, 18:35

ummm kilroy.. do we get a day yet???

Baragash

22nd April 2009, 21:32

Killing me killed Fate...the universe has perpetually stalled......

ajrk32

22nd April 2009, 22:14

DAM! i cant get it out of first gear!

Kilroy

23rd April 2009, 02:35

Dawn broke and the ragged survivors woke up. They were greeted by the rather forlorn sight of Enigmacookie, face cleft in two by an axe blow. By the cut of his cloth, you'd say he was a Trainee medic. Also written in Enigma's blood was this "Hi all. Tarion here. Don't hurt me". Once again they sighed. They would have to try and cull their numbers again.

Tarion'Maseth

23rd April 2009, 02:46

Please realise I had nothing to do with Enigma's death. His blood was just the random objects used by my power.

Also, am I right in thinking that is Sub confirmed?

MalkThe2nd

23rd April 2009, 04:30

It's looking so... I wonder what his results are, hopefully this will be an easy day :mrgreen:

Enigmacookie

23rd April 2009, 06:18

Remember me as this:
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb295/jspaugh/medic.jpg

LanceWarrior

23rd April 2009, 06:19

Wait - EC was a trainee - does this mean that there could have been a backup?

Subzero

23rd April 2009, 06:41

A trainee sounds like it would be the backup for the actual medic and not the other way around.

Investigated Doohicky and got an innocent result. With a lack of any guilty results so far my Sanity is still questionable.

Mozric

23rd April 2009, 07:50

IIRC Sub has investigated: Tarion, EC, Doohicky and Lancewarrior. All innocent results.

Anyway, for now let's have a look at the people still alive, seeing if we can confirm anbody.

2-Moz:
I've been active. I wasn't worried about Sub investigating me. So I guess I'm an unknown.

6-Sub
Roleclaims as Cop, has had only innocent results. Uncovered Baragash (an actual mafia) by being sneaky with his investigation.
Verdict: Either clever mafia backstabbing to gain cred or more likely Sane or Naive Cop. We don't have independent confirmation of his innocence but it seems likely there's one cop in the game, and that Sub is this cop.

8-Grotfang
Has been active. I think in the same boat as me as far as I can remember. An unknown.

11-Dark_Assassin (Lance Warrior)
Dodgy roleclaim, but found innocent by Sub. Innocence depends on whether Sub is sane.

13-ajrk
Has come under some suspicion for some of his comments. But more or less an unknown

14-Shotcoder
An unknown.

15-Doohicky
Less active but innocent result from Sub

16-Boltrig (Malkthe2nd)
Less active, an unknown?

17-Tarion
Verified Announcer role, assuming that Announcer is normally pro-town, we can count him a fairly confirmed innocent. Also came up innocent from sub's investigation.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some things because I haven't looked back through the topic. Can anybody add anything to my list?

The good news is that if Sub really is a sane Cop, then the mafia are in this group of players:
2-Moz
8-Grotfang
13-ajrk
14-Shotcoder
16-Boltrig (Malkthe2nd)

And there are 4 "confirmed" innocents.

I think though we need to look at how people have acted to work things out. Did anyone seem to divert suspicion away from Gnomesbane or Baragash at any point?

Doohicky

23rd April 2009, 07:52

I would be surprised if there are two medics, I find it more likely he was a Trainee medic travelling on the ship to serve on some planet etc. therefore being the only medic about the place.

From Bara's kill I now think my earlier theory was way out. I reckon 4 Mafia (One for each God) Nurgle and Tzeentch are dealt with and I assume it was the Khornate one who carried out the kill last night.

We have 9 people left. Of the people alive who have you investigated so far Sub? I know you did say soemwher before, but I am unsure where.
At the moment his sanity is still in question, but it is something to go on that is better than nothing.

Subzero

23rd April 2009, 11:25

Treehugger

23rd April 2009, 14:12

::hands EC a pair of chains and a cookie and goes back to watching::

OOooOooOo

Grotfang

23rd April 2009, 15:31

IIRC Sub has investigated: Tarion, EC, Doohicky and Lancewarrior. All innocent results.

...

The good news is that if Sub really is a sane Cop, then the mafia are in this group of players:
2-Moz
8-Grotfang
13-ajrk
14-Shotcoder
16-Boltrig (Malkthe2nd)

I realise that your sanity is unconfirmed, sub, but for now it seems silly to assume you are naive (and I can't believe there are enough mafia for you to be insane) as it would mean we would be pretty screwed if you turned out to be a legitimate cop.

So far we have killed two mafia, out of a probable four. I think all four demons will be represented here, and four mafia in an 18 player game seems pretty reasonable. Even if there were five (with three left instead of two) then we still have a couple of days left before things get tricky (ie. this one and next).

In the first day phase, there was a bandwagon against Boltrig due to him not posting. This went very close to killing him (in fact, by rights should have killed him... but still) and Baragash was one of the bandwagoners. In addition, he did not remove his vote from Boltrig, despite Boltrig being very close to a lynch. In my opinion, this willingness to kill a player so early on in the game by a known mafia means I am less inclined to see MalkThe2nd as a mafia player.

This leaves, for me, three players to consider voting for. I am willing to trust Mozric for the time being, given that his comments so far have been pretty neutral and he has been pretty active. In addition, in Day 2 he was one of the main people who voiced serious suspicion of Baragash, and persistently showed where Baragash was slipping up. Given few other people were taking those suspicions seriously at that time, it doesn't seem like a very tactical move if he were a mafia player.

So, Ajrk32 or shotcoder? For the pure and simple reason that in Day 3 Gnomesbane voted for Ajrk32, at a time late on when the vote could have ended in a lynch, then I will...

Vote: Shotcoder

MalkThe2nd

23rd April 2009, 15:36

Meh, another innocent. :smt012

I didn't notice EC was classed as a trainee before, strange that that title would be the main/only doc, but we are on a ship. Don't know nearly enough of the fluff to know if that's sufficient

I'm still very iffy on Lance, but that can be saved until Sub's sanity is confirmed.

I've noticed ajrk has almost gone into hiding. Granted the last day was short but his last 3 posts since the middle of day 3 have just been to say he's back and asking for a recap

As far as shot goes that could be another good place to look. Looking back I can't see anything about a limit. Just seems strange to try and get EC to not protect our only claimed power-role in the first place, just sounds suicidal to me

I'm torn with this one guys. On one hand I've been suspicious of ajrk for a while now, and it looks like his style has changed again , on the other is shot with this limit stuff. But being on the fence gets us nowhere, so for the time being I'm going to

Vote: ajrk32

MalkThe2nd

23rd April 2009, 15:39

Stupid PS3 text limit!

That pretty much boils down to a gut reaction guys, I was looking at a screen that sez "(b) Vote (b)" for like 10 mins :|

Doohicky

23rd April 2009, 15:58

I am unsure here. As said before I have been pretty suspicious of Arjk32 since the start. I don't know if it is his playstyle that is causing it or not, but he is the one standing out the most from what I can see.

On Sub, I have to say I am pretty certain of his innocence. If he had been Mafia he could have faked an investigation to find Baragash and therefore have us 100% with him, but he didn't and that makes me believe him more.
Whether he is naive or not is our only question. I am hoping he is not as we don't seem to have many powerful roles for the town here and I think the balance requires a sane cop.

Holding off for now, but I am seriously leaning towards an Arjk32 lynch.

MalkThe2nd

23rd April 2009, 16:02

I agree about Sub, since we had a mafia with investigative powers it would be unbalanced to have Sub also be mafia. The same logic says in all likelihood he's sane as well

Tarion'Maseth

23rd April 2009, 16:07

MalkThe2nd

23rd April 2009, 16:15

:eek: Right I didn't think of that, there's also the fact that he was straight wrong/lying on day 4, he could have easily had no power at all. But his claim was kinda early, he would have been risking there being a real Watcher to counter-claim.

*puts hand on chin* I'm still inclined to believe he had something over a normal mobster though

Doohicky

23rd April 2009, 16:18

I agree about Sub, since we had a mafia with investigative powers it would be unbalanced to have Sub also be mafia. The same logic says in all likelihood he's sane as well
We don't know we had a Mafia with investigative powers. Bara could have been lying. The only thing he knew was that one of the kills wasn't a Mafia kill, as I recall. As Mafia, he knew that.

But, as a follower of Tzeentch, it does make sense. We might have 4 Mafia, each with minor powers.

Hmmmm... You could be on to something there. Both night Kills have been from an Axe, which screams Khorne to me. But would they make it so that only the Khorne one could kill?? That would be a bit unfair to them.

The following are suppositions on what their mini powers may be due to their type.
So Tzeentch could watch people...
Nurgle could... Role block (Creates a stick, really clutching at straws here)
Slaneesh could... Come up as innocent from investigation? The Allure of slaneesh clouds the mind?
Khorne could Kill in the night phase? Maybe could even kill through a roleblock?

Probably all crap.. but throwing ideas out there.

Doohicky

23rd April 2009, 16:19

Stick should read stink

Grotfang

23rd April 2009, 16:28

That's a really good point about the possibility of a mafia coming up as innocent, Doohicky. Definitely worth bearing in mind.

My vote still stands on Shotcoder. I am satisfied with my reasons for seeing Moz and Boltrig/MalkThe2nd as innocents, and I am also still willing to give Ajrk32 the benefit of the doubt. (See earlier post for details).

shotcoder

23rd April 2009, 17:55

I have innocent results on Tarion, Lancewarrior (formerly Dark Assassin) and you, but my Sanity is uncertain at present.

Currently I'm suspicious of Shot. At the moment I don't have time to write a full argument but two things I can think of right now (that I've mentioned before):
1) the fact that he was voting for lurkers, but didn't vote for Gnomesbane when he pointed out that Gnomesbane was lurking. Gnomesbane then posted 5 hours later and claimed that this was entirely unrelated to Shot's comment. This seems like a way of reminding a Mafioso who was in danger of being bandwagonned as a lurker without getting any votes on them, keeping them safe.

2) Shot claimed last day phase that I had made a number of comments that, if true, meant that there was no point in EC protecting me last night, and we would have lost a result as I died.

More later when I have time.

Vote: Shotcoder

I like how you are still stuck on this time thing, I voted for Doohicky I believe it was and then Gnomesbane came in later. Posting times considering so many of us are in different time zones is a stupid way to decide who is mafia.

Also I like how I am condemned before I even get a chance to defend myself or even get invastigated.....Sub why didn't I get investigated last night? Why Doohicky?

Only five votes needed? well I have two so keep the rest coming and vote off your Hive Scum that snuck on board at the last planet the ship stopped at.

LanceWarrior

23rd April 2009, 17:57

Vote: Shotcoder

That thing about Hive Scum (which I didn't understand), and he said he had two votes - which indicates a role, a bribery/influential role (Slaanesh maybe).

shotcoder

23rd April 2009, 18:07

Vote: Shotcoder

That thing about Hive Scum (which I didn't understand), and he said he had two votes - which indicates a role, a bribery/influential role (Slaanesh maybe).

Nope I don't have a special role that grants me the knowledge of my vote count, that would be basic addition and subtraction that helps with that...Good try btw.

Tarion'Maseth

23rd April 2009, 18:09

Shot - I get the impression LW thought you had the power to use two votes.

shotcoder

23rd April 2009, 18:11

Shot - I get the impression LW thought you had the power to use two votes.

that's not what I got from his post, if that's what you meant LW then I'm sorry for the sarcasm.

LanceWarrior

23rd April 2009, 18:33

Only five votes needed? well I have two so keep the rest coming and vote off your Hive Scum that snuck on board at the last planet the ship stopped at.

This is what I read - you have two votes. Which can be taken one of two ways:

a) You have the ability to make two votes.
b) You have received two votes.

If b) then vote off the 'Hive Scum' strikes me as you saying we should vote you off because you are the Hive Scum...

Maybe some clarification here, please?

shotcoder

23rd April 2009, 18:42

It's B) but now I have 3 vote, so come on and bring the last two.

No need to kill me but Sub has me condemned and hasn't even investigated me....has been suspicious of me the whole game but refuse to investigate me.

Subzero

23rd April 2009, 19:13

Okay, in addition to the points I raised previously there's the fact that you voiced significant suspicion of all of the roleclaimed players on day 3 multiple times, despite the fact that I pointed out numerous times that nobody was absolutely accepting anyone's word, there were some power roles that had ample evidence backing them up and there were some (myself and Baragash) that were unknowns and were to be tested in the next night. So far we've found that Tree and EC (those with evidence strongly supporting their claims at the time you dismissed them) are innocent, and Bara (with no evidence to support his claim) was guilty after being caught out during the test.

Additionally, the point regarding the posting times of both you and Gnomes isn't anything to do with the posts simply being close, it's the fact that you pointed out that he was lurking (without voting for him as you did with other lurkers) and relatively soon after that he began posting.

Regarding investigations, I didn't have any particular reason to investigate you in Night 1, I chose EC in night 2 to verify his alignment and my sanity, I chose Lance in Night 3 due to his roleclaim and Doohicky in Night 4 due to his comments on the possible Cult abilities of the Chaos group (I thought their may have been a connection to Baragash's comments - possibly not). The only night in which I had particular reason to investigate you over anyone else would be last night, but there wasn't significant reason. In any case, defending yourself on the basis that you haven't been investigated by the Cop and that the Cop shouldn't accuse anyone without investigating them is a poor argument.

Not that I'm arguing for your lynch right away (I'm still suspicious of ajrk and Malk for lurking, and Grot in general) but I still find you suspicious right now.

In any case, "go ahead and lynch me, then you'll be sorry!" is never a good defense.

Subzero

23rd April 2009, 19:16

Two more things:
1) Could you roleclaim properly, Shot?

2) Grot, I find it strange that you've basically decided to eliminate from suspicion everyone bar the person currently being voted for.

Grotfang

23rd April 2009, 19:27

I'm not eliminating them from suspicion, sub.

In these games, as much as possible, I like to think along the lines of eliminating players I think are pro-town, then voting from a selection of who is left. That way I avoid using the logic of "x is behaving like a mafia player". I thought that the way the voting from confirmed mafia players went could be a good indication of players' alignments, so I eliminate and then vote accordingly.

Ajrk32 is only a tenuous leap of logic and I by no means think he is a confirmed innocent. In addition, I pointed out that I believe there to be 2 mafia left, and yet eliminated everyone bar one player. Do you really think that I believe everyone I eliminated to be confirmed innocents?

I am going to

Unvote: shotcoder

for the time being, as there is no reason not to wait and see him explain his role. One thing I did notice though, sub (reading through the thread) is that we have not yet actually confirmed that you are a pro-town player. You have not yet produced an investigation result that you wouldn't have known simply from being mafia.

And finally, if needed, I am prepared to role claim. My role is possible to evidence and is pro-town.

Tarion'Maseth

23rd April 2009, 19:36

I'm not eliminating them from suspicion, sub.

In these games, as much as possible, I like to think along the lines of eliminating players I think are pro-town, then voting from a selection of who is left. That way I avoid using the logic of "x is behaving like a mafia player". I thought that the way the voting from confirmed mafia players went could be a good indication of players' alignments, so I eliminate and then vote accordingly.

Ajrk32 is only a tenuous leap of logic and I by no means think he is a confirmed innocent. In addition, I pointed out that I believe there to be 2 mafia left, and yet eliminated everyone bar one player. Do you really think that I believe everyone I eliminated to be confirmed innocents?

I am going to

Unvote: shotcoder

for the time being, as there is no reason not to wait and see him explain his role. One thing I did notice though, sub (reading through the thread) is that we have not yet actually confirmed that you are a pro-town player. You have not yet produced an investigation result that you wouldn't have known simply from being mafia.This is an argument I was making earlier, and the events of the last day perhaps enforce it. "Tricking" Baragash, in order to pseudo-confirm Sub as pro-town is perhaps backed up by Baragash's over the top reaction to the game (Of course, he could just dislike the way the game has been playing out)

I don't see any way to test this theory either.

Grotfang

23rd April 2009, 19:40

Also, Baragash's tantrum where he says he had expected Sub to double-cross him is bugging me. Was he just playing silly buggers, or was he actually telling the truth?

Doohicky

23rd April 2009, 19:41

Grot, could you expand on your role claim claim (Does that make sense?).
If you think revealing it will not hurt the town or inhibit it's use then I think you should claim, especially if it confirmable.

If you think it is best not to roleclaim then fair enough, although normally once someone mentions roleclaiming they are hounded until they do.

LanceWarrior

23rd April 2009, 19:43

Also, Baragash's tantrum where he says he had expected Sub to double-cross him is bugging me. Was he just playing silly buggers, or was he actually telling the truth?

I think it was just Baragash just saying that Sub is generally a player whom you cannot trust - ruthless, strikes me as a good word. Although it is a thought that crossed my mind, was Baragashes message actually a message (surely not, it'd be breaking the rules...)

Tarion'Maseth

23rd April 2009, 19:44

I took double-crossing to refer to lying about who he had used his power on (As he did).

It could be read the other way, as Sub sacrificing B without his permission

Grotfang

23rd April 2009, 23:00

Grot, could you expand on your role claim claim (Does that make sense?).
If you think revealing it will not hurt the town or inhibit it's use then I think you should claim, especially if it confirmable.

Not a problem. I am the Captain and have a double vote ability.

In Day 1 Boltrig should have been killed, as he had 8 people voting for him, including myself, which put him to 9 votes. However, Kilroy screwed up and didn't kill him off.

As I said, it is easily provable. Not the best ability in the world, but one I didn't want to shout about too early on.

Grotfang

23rd April 2009, 23:08

Sorry - got confused. It was this point in Day 2 when Kilroy got confused. He called a tie when Enigmacookie was actually on four votes. While the ultimate result was very fortunate (we kept EC alive!), it did mean that my role was meaningless at the only time so far that it would have made any difference.

Votecount of Juggling... Let's see some votes
Mephaine (3):Treehugger, Shotcoder, EC
Baragash (1): Mozzie
Nova (1): Doohicky
EC (3): Gnome, Baragash, Grot

EC and Mephaine are currently leading
Needed for lynch: 9
Going into overtime!

It'll either be Mephaine or EC guys. You may now only vote for Mephaine or EC... First one between the two with more votes is lynched.

shotcoder

24th April 2009, 00:25

Two more things:
1) Could you roleclaim properly, Shot?

How would you like me to do that?

I am a Hive Scum I made my way onto the ship through the cargo hold and left the planet in hopes of starting life a new. I have no special abilities.

of course summarized so I don't get mod killed.

MalkThe2nd

24th April 2009, 05:52

I took double-crossing to refer to lying about who he had used his power on (As he did).

I thought the same, until I noticed it was actually EC who caught Bara by lying about who he was protecting. So the comment directed at sub is a bit odd

I dunno what to think about Grots claim... seems kinda ballsy to say you're a double-voter that got forgotten about as it leaves you wide open.

I can understand Day 4 was super-short, but today has already been a good deal longer and we still havn't heard a peep from ajrk.

I was about to add Moz to that but I noticed he posted some good logic at the start of the day. Bara was pretty much concidered a pro-townie until his slip-up with EC's target. I doubt we can dig up anything tring to take attention away from him as his "watching" was in the limelight.

I've been searching about Gnomes, but he never attracted much attention other than being a lurker... and with all the anti-lurk this game it's a toss-up if any voters (cont...)

MalkThe2nd

24th April 2009, 06:03

on Gnomes were just trying to ebb inactivity or trying to distance themselves. I've looked a good amount of pages, but didn't find anything about Gnomes good or bad without the "L word"

I'm sure this is coincidence... but anyone thought a Slannesh avy running around (changed mid game mind you) might be a bit odd? That's brass balls no matter what role you have considering the game setting and that the two mafia were "plauge" and "change"

Subzero

24th April 2009, 10:12

It seems a little strange that you never bothered to notify Kilroy of this, or that there were no similar events so far.

In any case, put your vote on Shot. Then someone else can vote for him. If he's lynched, you're telling the truth. If he isn't, you're lying (note that this doesn't confirm your alignment).

Grotfang

24th April 2009, 10:32

I did notify Kilroy, and he did apologise for the mistake. However, at that point Mepahine had already been lynched.

As for voting for shot, I really don't want to. I see no reason to distrust his roleclaim. I am getting increasingly suspicious of you, though, sub. You are still pretty keen to get rid of shotcoder, despite him giving the role claim you asked for. It seems as though you have taken a lot of control of this game, without any evidence that you are working in the town's favour.

I previously eliminated individuals based on the fact that you had shown them to be innocent. I no longer feel that this is an appropriate supposition. I still maintain that I see Malk and Mozric as being likely to be pro-town (see previous long post for details) as my thoughts regarding them are based on behaviour from confirmed mafia players.

I am willing to act on my suspicions. Therefore:

Vote: Subzero

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 10:42

Mozric

24th April 2009, 12:19

That's really bad logic tarion, I would have expected better from you.

I must admit though, that the mafia may well leave Sub alive tonight, casting more suspicion on him. Possible, but then again the mafia would have to REALLY hope that he's naive.
Of course, maybe Sub has already investigated a mafia and they have come up as innocent. If this is true then the mafia definately won't want to kill Sub.

I'm toying with the idea of there being a mafia announcer and a mafia double-voter... Would be etch.

On the balance of things though, I still think it's a better idea to lynch e. g. Shot rather than Subzero. Besides, Shot has already roleclaimed that he has no special abilities, worst case scenario here is that we kill a powerless innocent. If we lynch Sub worst case is that the mafia get a free kill.

Grot and Tarions arguments now worry me, because if they're right or wrong, things are getting harder to work out.

Subzero

24th April 2009, 12:32

That's an incredibly poor reason for wanting to lynch someone. If I'm lynched today it leaves the mafia free to kill someone else tonight, such as our currently-claimed Doublevoter. If I was left alive and the Mafia decided not to kill me on the basis that it would look suspicious tomorrow, and I would get lynched, then we might have a guilty result. This seems like a very easy way to kill off an important role by claiming that 'it's going to die anyway'.

Your claim that I have been 'controlling' the game is suspect to me, because I have always maintained that my Sanity is unknown (and have directly questioned it previously) and also pointed out that there may be other reasons for not receiving predicted results (I think in my claim I mentioned alignment roles e.g. Godfather). In addition, everything I've done has required the aid and full agreement of other players (see the test with Baragash - even then things did not go as planned, leading to me being vulnerable to nightkill attempts and Baragash getting caught).

I'd also like to question your clearance of Malk. Boltrig was nearly lynched and he wasd completely inactive until that point - i.e. he was dead weight to the Mafia. With numerous confirmed innocent players (from our perspective on day 5 - Nov, EC, Eddy) voting for Bolt, it would be an easy ride to achieving some kind of legitimacy which would certainly have helped Bara's roleclaim.

If your decision to clear Malk is on the basis that the Mafia would never vote for one of their own for any moderate period of time then it's incredibly flawed.

Additionally, I'm going to note that you were the last person to unvote on Bolt (in fact you didn't ever do so on Day 1).

More later when I have time - I have to go now.

LanceWarrior

24th April 2009, 14:27

I agree with Grots logic, it was something I wondered in day 3 but did not want to say, as it was at a risk of being lynched.

Unvote
Vote: Subzero

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 16:00

Calm it guys. We have 3/4 votes on Sub already, one more and it might be over.

I was mostly speculating, not sure we're ready to push on. If someone kills off Sub now, and he is innocent, it's definitely someone to watch.

Subzero

24th April 2009, 16:54

Tarion, a) I doubt that what you said was 'mostly speculation' given that you were talking about how lynching me would be 'a sensible move' and how 'we couldn't take the risk' of letting me live. b) Saying 'calm it guys' seems odd when the only person to vote for me after you was Lance and you were arguing the most (about the same as Grotfang, I suppose) to lynch me.

Grotfang: You've pretty much reversed your stance that Shot was suspicious and I should be treated as a Sane Cop simply because I wanted to test your ability (which we have absolutely no evidence for) on a player who has claimed regular Innocent who I still suspect and you feel should not be lynched purely because they made a roleclaim.

Secondly, given trends in game design it's likely that most Normal games will have a Cop. Let's assume I'm lying and there's a real Cop with 4 investigation results, and they claim right now and I'm lynched. In the worst-case scenario that means there are 6 unconfirmed players and 1 Mafioso left. In the best-case scenario the Mafia literally cannot win, because the confirmed Innocents form a majority.

Currently this has not happened.

Aside from that your clearances of ajrk and Malk are both based on the flawed assumption that the Mafia will rarely vote for their own members and will avoid putting themselves anywhere near a lynch or arguing against each other. If we followed this then the Mafia could win by simply adopting both sides of an argument.

In any case, I'm still very much in favour of testing whether or not you have a doublevote, just not on a claimed power role that's near-guaranteed to die soon and in doing so will take up a Mafia kill. I mean, look at it this way - if I'm Sane and the Mafia don't kill me, the confirmed innocents form a majority and the Mafia lose.

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 17:06

MalkThe2nd

24th April 2009, 17:22

I just don't see where these votes on sub are coming from. Like he said, we have no reason to believe there's another investigative role running around, and if there is in fact one we need them to claim. I just don't think that with Bara being mafia, that Sub would be as well. Granted Bara's "powers" could easily have been fabricated but that would leave only one investigation power on a mafia... it could happen but I doubt it

Grotfang

24th April 2009, 17:40

Sub, the reason why I did such a u-turn is because of your readiness to vote shotcoder off to prove the double vote ability. Shotcoder has provided a role claim, which is what you asked of him.

However, I don't absolutely disagree with the idea of killing him. He could be lying, of course, and he is claiming a role with no abilities, which would not be a huge loss.

The reason why I voted for you was to make sure people took the time to read my post. In the past people have said I post too long arguments (which is why I normally provide two versions, a summary and analysis) and I wanted people to recognise that my "assumptions" were for the sake of eliminating individuals temporarily, not because I was assuming absolute innocence.

In addition, I will point out I was the first to vote for you when you had zero posts. I was not imagining killing you off with no discussion. I just wished to point out that we have not yet had any confirmation of your alignment.

Unvote: Subzero

Vote: Shotcoder

MalkThe2nd

24th April 2009, 17:53

I'm going to go ahead any restate I think ajrk needs to go. Now that he's no longer the main suspect he dropped off the face of the game.

His last "post" was like 48 ago, and it's been since the 12th where he had a post of any content... and that was just to say "I'm back". I figured maybe he's been away, but his profile states he was logged in 4 hours ago.

Going from posting a couple times a page to this sticks out like a sore thumb to me

MalkThe2nd

24th April 2009, 17:54

Edit: 48 hours

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 17:57

I like that thinking, and if we are to test out Grotfangs ability, might as well kill someone who's lurking.

Kilroy

24th April 2009, 21:47

Vote Count of Whatsagonnahappennext?
Shotcoder (2): Sub, Grot
Ajrk (1): Malk
Sub (2): Tarion, Lancewarrior

Not Voting: Moz, Doohicky, Shotcoder, Ajrk

Sub and Shotcoder are tied
Needed for lynch: 5
Time left: 133 hours to go

ajrk32

24th April 2009, 21:51

My dog had too get an eye removed. i went down to ann arbor for the surgery and did not feel like playing mafia.
If you want too go ahead and kill me. well, thats about it.
sub too me has proved his innocence. before so i feel hesitent to put pressure on him now.
as im not going to vote for my self ill re read this and see if i should vote for shot.

Subzero

24th April 2009, 22:53

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 22:59

Grot, you'll note that the votecount says that myself and Shot are tied. This being (relatively speaking) immediately after you roleclaimed doublevoter. Whilst it's possible that the extra vote is not included in the votecount, it's tenuous. Currently you've provided no evidence for your roleclaim, said that Kilroy forgot to take account of the role where it would have had any effect before and resisted testing it out.
I disagree hugely. I think it'll only kick in when we hit the deadline. Otherwise, it just seems to be impossible to keep that role secret. Still, if it doesn't kick in, then obviously it is fake.

Grotfang

24th April 2009, 23:01

I am not averse to testing it out. I am currently voting for shot, as you asked me to. If two more people put their votes on shot, then you can see what happens. That way, if I am lying; then nothing will happen. If I am telling the truth, then shot will be lynched.

ajrk32

24th April 2009, 23:03

I belive taron is right, and we should wait for dead line or get another 2 votes to see if it kicks in then.

ajrk32

24th April 2009, 23:04

EDIT: didnt realize grot just posted before me.

hmm.

VOTE: SHOT

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 23:05

Well, Vote: Shotcoder

Ajrk's post popped up, so that should be us there now. Let's see what happens.

Grotfang

24th April 2009, 23:06

I will repeat:

No-one else vote for shot!

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 23:07

I think we can more or less confirm anyone else voting for Shot as Mafia :P

Kilroy

24th April 2009, 23:09

Shotcoder is dead... Death scene coming up later.

Tarion'Maseth

24th April 2009, 23:12

Well, Grotfang has double-vote. Sounds a bit like a Slaaneshi power though, tbh. If we go with the 1 of each God route, each with powers, it doesn't prove him to be a good guy.

ajrk32

24th April 2009, 23:22

hmm... well ill be interested in what shot was. if it turns out he is mafia, and that he is one of the four powers he may indead be a slaaneshi god power however we have too see waht shot was.

ajrk32

24th April 2009, 23:23

EDIT:
but what would nurgles power be and tzeentch? what power did bara have?

Treehugger

25th April 2009, 05:26

::hits people on their heads with his ghostly chains for talking during the night phase::

OOooOOooOoo

scythes

25th April 2009, 10:50

OoOoOoOoOoOoOo....The ghosts will win this mafia if we only rise up and vote for everyone else!!! :mrgreen:

LanceWarrior

25th April 2009, 11:22

It's not night phase yet is it?

*Calls Ghostbusters...again!*

Treehugger

25th April 2009, 17:31

Yes Lance it is the night phase.

Shotcoder is dead... Death scene coming up later.

The instant a player is lynched the day phase ends, regardless of anything else [this rule has a very practical use in the case of hidden/double votes, it stops people from trying to unvote when a vote count would show that the person has 1 more vote until they get lynched]. In this situation the faction of the lynched player has not been revealed but that doesnt make the day phase any less over, which means that likely Kilroy will not choose to start the time limit for the night phase until he writes the death scene. However at this point votes cant be changed and that means the day is over, the flow of information in the thread should stop at that time. The reason for that is so there is no extra information given to those people who may have night abilities, they should only be able to proceed based on what came out during the day phase and any more discussion adds to their store of knowledge (regardless of their faction).

Baragash

25th April 2009, 18:41

*reincarnates*

"OoOooooOOOOoo"'s

*disappears again*

Enigmacookie

25th April 2009, 19:46

http://www.newcenturypress.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/203F.jpg

LanceWarrior

25th April 2009, 20:23

Yes Lance it is the night phase.

Shotcoder is dead... Death scene coming up later.

I missed this... :oops:

*Slaps self silly*

Kilroy

25th April 2009, 20:54

"I'm telling you all! I snuck on the ship from the hive! I wanted to start a new life where I could have fortune! Please you must listen to me" Cried Shotcoder. "Yeah" Sub started sneering "I bet that was Baragashes story too. Let's get him guys" The others moved towards him to bind him up. "No... No..." Shotcoder stuttered "I... I... I'll FUCKING KILL YOU ALL". His eyes turned blood red. Foam dripped from his mouth. He pulled out a knife and rushed at them. "Skulls for the Skull Throne!" he howled. He raised the knife high above his head. Tarion hefted a shotgun, and blew the top half of Shotcoder's head off, his brains splattered the floor. It would appear that he was a Soldier of the angel of vengeance. Malk and Mozric grabbed the body, and threw it in a pile, with all the others.

LanceWarrior

25th April 2009, 21:00

CENSORED

Kilroy

25th April 2009, 21:04

Its the night phase

LanceWarrior

25th April 2009, 21:06

Its the night phase

I swear it said day...

(Slaps self silly again)

Kilroy

27th April 2009, 00:57

You wake in the middle of the day. You are well rested and for once in this horrifying situation, you are pleased. You wander through the halls and find no evidence of killing. Perhaps you killed the last of the people who were threats to you?

Tarion'Maseth

27th April 2009, 01:00

Looks like the theory is playing out. We have a follower of each Chaos God. We've seen our Khornate follower - Looks like he was the nightkiller. Our Nurgle player had an ability we didn't see. And our Tzeentch player was a tracker of some sort.

What would a Slaanesh follower do? Double vote looks like a reasonable power.

LanceWarrior

27th April 2009, 06:28

Grotfang

27th April 2009, 07:06

I only have time to type quickly here - due out very soon!

I agree that by the looks of things we only have one more mafia to go. With all of the mafia having extra mini powers, judging by the roleset we have seen on the town's side, the game would be pretty balanced with only four mafia.

As for whether or not I am mafia; I do realise there is little I can do to prove my innocence. I resisted killing shotcoder last day phase, and my power isn't intrinsically good. All I can do is point out that my role is that of captain and hope that you guys believe me when I say it is a pro-town role.

I will do nothing else this phase to try and protest my innocence. There is nothing else I can do. If you believe me to be mafia, then vote for me; if not, then vote for someone else. Simple.

Before voting though, I would like to see the results of sub's investigation last night.

MalkThe2nd

27th April 2009, 07:37

Double vote does seem kinda iffy... but idk, def going to wait on results before I go into who to vote today

Doohicky

27th April 2009, 07:54

I'm doing nothing until I see Sub's result. MAybe the only Night kill person was the Khornate Mafia, after all, the night kills were all by an axe.

Either that or someone was role blocked. If someone roleblocked someone else please let us know.

Mozric

27th April 2009, 08:09

I'm waiting for Sub's results.

Subzero

27th April 2009, 17:24

Vote: Mozric

I got a guilty result last night

Tarion'Maseth

27th April 2009, 17:26

There's 8 of us. Means Sub's not going for a last gasp Mafia push.

Vote: Mozric. Absolute worst case, we learn something about Sub.

LanceWarrior

27th April 2009, 17:28

Unvote
Vote: Mozric

Cause of Subs result and his confirmed sanity.

MalkThe2nd

27th April 2009, 17:50

Vote: Mozric cause well, yeah

LanceWarrior

27th April 2009, 18:33

I think one more and Mozric dies...

Kilroy

27th April 2009, 19:26

Vote count of THE PLAGUE OF REALLY SHORT DAY PHASES

Moz (4): Sub, Lance, Malk ,Tarion

Needed for lynch: 5
Time left: Lots

ajrk32

27th April 2009, 19:36

Don't see howthis can really go wrong. So I'll vote moz

LanceWarrior

27th April 2009, 19:36

Time left: Lots

Great and precise there Kilroy... :eek:

Grotfang

27th April 2009, 19:53

Dammit! Missed the bandwagon again :(

Vote: Moz...

Doohicky

27th April 2009, 20:10

Was going to say something, but it's now night phase so can't. (Basically saying I arrived too late :P)

Mozric

28th April 2009, 00:49

GODDAMNIT, you could have at least given me a chance to say something...
*rattles chains*

Treehugger

28th April 2009, 02:15

*admires Mozrics chains*
Thats the new model isnt it? Mine only have the faux-bronzing on them, that looks like real bronzing. Nice.

Kilroy

28th April 2009, 02:27

"Mozric is guilty!" cried Subzero. The others looked at Moz feverishly. "Get him" they shouted. They pulled out their weapons and rushed at him. "No, wait! Let me explain I'm- " He was abruptly stopped as a section of pipe fell down upon his head and caved it in. You pull a badge from the inside of his coat. Apparently he was a repairman.

Kilroy

29th April 2009, 03:19

You wake up in the morning again. No deaths. No violence. No Racket. No nothing. You become suspicious of this apparent lack of activity. you must stay on your guard...

Day 7 now...

LanceWarrior

29th April 2009, 06:38

Well Sub is sane and coaxed us into voting Mozric. Therefore he was lying so must be mafia.

Vote: Subzero

Doohicky

29th April 2009, 07:52

While I agree, I think we do need to hear from him before actually lynching him. We didn't do that on the last day phase and look what happened.

Doohicky

29th April 2009, 10:45

Sub has been on and posting over an hour ago but has not came in to defend himself.

Vote: Subzero

Grotfang

29th April 2009, 12:51

So... what does this mean?

Let's assume sub was telling the truth and he is an investigator. He clearly isn't insane, as he got an innocent result on EC, and he can't be naive as he got a guilty result on mozric. Therefore, he is either a sane cop and mozric had a condition whereby he came up guilty to investigation, or sub has been lying to us.

Repairman to me is unlikely to be the sort of role that comes up guilty to investigation, but why would sub lie at this point? By my reasoning there is only likely to be one mafia left in the game. Tricky.

Summary:

Either sub is what he claims and mozric had a condition whereby he appeared guilty, or
Sub is playing silly buggers with us.

Tarion'Maseth

29th April 2009, 13:06

Gah. I don't see why Sub would do that. He's too smart to think he can get away with it, surely.

So, could he have someone messing with his ability?

If so, why now? They've known who he was all along. Screwing with his ability seems like something to do consistently. However, it does feel Slaaneshi (Someone hit me if I'm pushing this Slaanesh thing too far).

I'm tempted to say Sub isn't guilty, but he may just be wanting us to think that.

If he is innocent, we have a guilty party amongst these players:

8-Grotfang
13-ajrk
16-Boltrig (Malkthe2nd)

I can eliminate Grotfang as double-vote is confirmed, and I can't imagine he'd have two powers.

So, my suspicion is that either ajrk or Malk have a target switching, role obfuscating power.

Note -I'm ignoring the confirmed innocents, and may have missed something. I'm using the list put together by Moz earlier, so it may be sneaky :P

MalkThe2nd

29th April 2009, 14:51

Tarion makes a good point, surely Sub wouldn't be going out on a limb with this many people left in the game.

One thing that sticks out to me though... if his powers were getting nerfed by slaanesh, how do we know they havn't "cleared" themselves already? Or he could just be naive and is only getting guiltys b/c of it. While grot doing those w/ double-vote would be over-powered, Lance has a shaky claim (and jumped on sub like wolves to a slaughter) and Tarion hinted a few days ago msgs may not be all he does, although frankly I can't see him caught dead with the 8 bit KoS if he was in fact our slannesh mafioso.

I'd like to hear from sub before I place a vote anywhere

LanceWarrior

29th April 2009, 16:55

I agree it is weird that Sub has done what he has done. So we need to look at some reasons why he may be doing it:

1) He did it to kill a townie - kamikantze style.
2) There is an altering role somewhere - I think there's one called bus driver.
3) Moz was a hated townie - or would we have been informed of this?

But I'm keeping my vote on him until he can come up with a valid excuse as to why this happened.

If he is innocent, we have a guilty party amongst these players:

8-Grotfang
13-ajrk
16-Boltrig (Malkthe2nd)

I can eliminate Grotfang as double-vote is confirmed, and I can't imagine he'd have two powers.

I agree with this list, although i'm not counting Grotfang out - the changing role could easily be a townie who thought they would be doing good in stopping the intended target.

One thing to consider is how quiet Arjk has been since we started declaring that we were suspicious of him - maybe he thinks lurking will help his skin?

ajrk32

29th April 2009, 20:02

hello all, well, i have an idea.
mayby all the cahos god powers have different win conditions.
where the inter god squable in the great game prevents them from winning as long as there is other mafia about.
tahts waht i think, it explains the inter-mafia war and could mean that grot is mafia, whitch i believe he might be.
i dont believe i have been especially quiet i just dont have anything to say.

so im looking at the kamakazee style subzero or the sneaky grotfang.
this is the first time ive looked at mafia this day phase so i havent be "quiet" or "lurking"
my dog did have surgery so i couldnt play. and now it looks lke im ranting for self defense and i am. but im not mafia.

Grotfang

29th April 2009, 20:15

I agree with this list, although i'm not counting Grotfang out - the changing role could easily be a townie who thought they would be doing good in stopping the intended target.

I think you have misunderstood Tarion's point. He is not saying that I am pro-town and therefore can't have an obfuscating power. He is pointing out that I have a confirmed double vote ability and am therefore unlikely to have a second power. My alignment is still unknown, although I stand by my claim of being pro-town with the title of Captain.

im not mafia.

Well, that settles it then. Ajrk must be innocent :roll:

An altering role would be interesting. Unfortunately what this would mean is that sub's current list of confirmed innocents could be unreliable. If this is something we are going to assume, then it does mean we are going to have to reconsider the individuals we previously thought were safe

LanceWarrior

29th April 2009, 20:47

Tarion'Maseth

29th April 2009, 23:01

Sub's lack of response is worrying. He's been online since, but only to make a quick post. I'm definitely all for hanging fire.

ajrk32

30th April 2009, 02:15

@grot I'm so pleased you beloved me!

Why don't we make a list of the people left and than state what we know.

ajrk32

30th April 2009, 02:28

*believed

Subzero

30th April 2009, 06:31

Alright, so Moz must have been was a miller-type role and turned up guilty because of that. That being said, I came up with another guilty result tonight.

Vote: ajrk32

Also... Sorry for not posting... Really busy with my play...

LanceWarrior

30th April 2009, 06:39

What Sub said could be, I'm willing to give his results another go. Then if they're false kill him afterwards.

Unvote
Vote: Arkj32

Doohicky

30th April 2009, 08:36

I am willing to give Sub one more chance as the Mafia can't win within the next phase I believe. Howver if it is wrong again We HAVE to Lynch him.

However I have to mention that the Slaneesh Aura could be causing these affects. I believe the Mafia that is left can not night kill, so it is all down to what power do they have?

Tarion'Maseth

30th April 2009, 09:47

Right, he was one of our targets anyway.

Vote:Arkj32

Doohicky

30th April 2009, 10:38

Oops, forgot about my vote..

unvote: Sub

Vote: Arjk32

Grotfang

30th April 2009, 11:12

Vote: Ajrk32

ajrk32

30th April 2009, 13:32

DAMN IT GUYS! I'm dead!
look what you did now!
darn it.

Kilroy

1st May 2009, 02:50

Ajrk looked at them. Panic filled his features. "What? NO! I never even spoke to Mozric! Hardly ever even looked at him!".
Lancewarrior looked at him in contempt. "Right mutie. That's what they all say." He raised his sledge hammer above his head and brought it down on Ajrk's head, crushing it like a ripe watermelon. Gore splattered the floor. Upon searching his belongings later you would discover gear that would suggest that he was a Communications officer.

ajrk32

1st May 2009, 19:28

*chains*
mwahaha
fooolish foolish people!

Kilroy

3rd May 2009, 03:51

A new day rises and you're eyes dart from person to person, paranoid. There must be another traitor amongst your numbers, but who? Just because nobody's dying during the night, doesn't mean something isn't afoot.

LanceWarrior

3rd May 2009, 07:26

Vote: Subzero

For two false investigations.

Tarion'Maseth

3rd May 2009, 11:54

Vote: Sub. I don't see any other choice. Particularly as he barely posted yesterday.

MalkThe2nd

3rd May 2009, 14:07

I'm going to have to agree, Sub needs to go
Vote: Subzero

ajrk32

3rd May 2009, 15:31

three votes, (50%)

Kilroy

3rd May 2009, 16:42

One more vote needed.

Grotfang

3rd May 2009, 16:50

Vote: Subzero

ajrk32

3rd May 2009, 17:12

*chains*
HAHAHA join those you betrayed.
may you walk untill your feet bleed, and than keep walking.

Mozric

3rd May 2009, 21:50

c'mon arjk, I'm dead too and I'm not making too many ghostly noises.

oooooOOOOOOoooo

Kilroy

3rd May 2009, 23:31

"But why?" Subzero cried "I helped you uncover the traitor Baragash! Because I made a few mistakes doesn't mean I am evil!". Grotfang advanced towards him, club in hand. "Yeah" he spat "Just tell that to Mozric and Ajrk!". He swung the cudgel at subzero's temple, the others cheering him on. Sub fell to the ground, dead. They then realised the horror of their actions. They had just killed a Chaplain of the ecclesiarchy. Torn by guilt, they went to bed, but didn't sleep.