Are Black Templars Still a Force to be Feared?

[jedihobbit]

I wasn't sure if this should be here or in the Tactics Forum.

Is the Black Templars army still competitive? And what i mean is how does the army hold up to newer codices? At the moment I'm trying to decide whether to go with Black Templars, or the new Space Marines. Black Templars was my first army, too many special rules to deal with when i didn't even know the main rules. But they are still my favorite army when it comes to Fluff and models. But how much will i be sacrificing in terms of playability for the fluff and models?

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

Sure are, a 2k list I might be afraid to face is pretty much 5x 5 Termies with 2 Assault Cannons and 5x 5 Initiates and Lascannons.

Termies get in your face good luck dealing with 'em, Troop choices loiter back field until the last turns of the game and hop on objectives if needed.

[Fce Cmmr Sangre]

Just a note that you can play a vanilla SM army in Templar colours.

[Novasry]

Just a note that you can play a vanilla SM army in Templar colours.
:smt011

no...no you can't...

show me CCWs in your troop choices, show me scouts in your tactical squads, show me the emperors champion, show me riteous zeal...these are the things that make black templars black templars and none can be done in the vanilla codex

[Phail]

and preferred enemy on everyone including dreadnoughts :)

[DCB]

Are Black Templars Still a Force to be Feared?

Hell yes, as I have found out. They're fast, assault terminators with furious chage are deadly, and 20 man crusader squads mean it's hard to stop them. Emperor's champion is an awesome hq choice too, from what I have seen. So yup. They're very scary.

[Iwasfrozen]

I would even go as far as to say with the new run rules, BT are a bit OP.
So yeah enjoy it while you can because they will be nerfed come the next Codex.

[Phail]

I would even go as far as to say with the new run rules, BT are a bit OP.
So yeah enjoy it while you can because they will be nerfed come the next Codex.

fgs no we are not OP

we got nerfed with the new rulebook

our righteous zeal rule got royally FUCKED with the arrival of 5th edition

Let me explain

in 4th edition (or 3.5th edition w/e idc) the righteous zeal move allowed us to initiate an assault. This therefore meant that the opponent may think to himself "oh, i won't shoot them because then they might (and probably will) reach to assault me"

Whereas in 5th edition you can't consolidate into close combat our righteous zeal move means we have to stop 1" away from the enemy, so now the opponent will be thinking "oh cool, if i shoot them they'll have to move closer to me and therefore i can assault them!"

COMPLETELY fucked us up, so no, we are NOT op and i will feed anyone who says we are to Pox's cesspit, or erm skull throne, or whatever he's sitting on these days :|

[smacky]

we are NOT op and i will feed anyone who says we are to Pox's cesspit, or erm skull throne, or whatever he's sitting on these days :|

lol

[The_Peacemaker]

overpowered pfft!

Just go against a mobile shooty army and you'll see how 'overpowered' a black Templar force is.

In the last edition BT were underpowered. Now they are about right.
- they still can't take whirlwinds or dev squads. They have 100+ pts predators, jump troops are expensive, and powerfist guys only have 1 attack!


As for making a BT list with the new space marine codex:
HQ would be a captain with relic blade, artificer armour. Troops would just be scouts with pistol & ccw. You'd take 3 assault squads with or without jump packs
- granted its not the best but thats how you would do it.

[Shas'o Jui'my]

Yeah they kinda are overpowered the power that allows the ENITRE army to have preferred enemy, one of the guys at our LGS plays em and has never lost.

[smacky]

Yeah they kinda are overpowered the power that allows the ENITRE army to have preferred enemy, one of the guys at our LGS plays em and has never lost.


Does he not play much? or Do the people he play never really change their strategy?

I mean I've never played a BT list, but from what I have gathered they are going to lose if you can keep yourself at arms length, even if its just for that extra turn. Especially in 5th edition, one more turn where you give the BT some room would pay huge dividends later. Each of those nasty CC units can only possibly kill one squad a turn in assualt, so you've got to stay mobile and keep them from doing that as long as you can. Yay consolidation rules!

I believe eldar or tau list would tear up a BT list pretty consistently.

[Dark_Assassin]

Yeah they kinda are overpowered the power that allows the ENITRE army to have preferred enemy, one of the guys at our LGS plays em and has never lost.

Preferred enemy is only useful if you let it be. Knocking out transports early on, and disintegrators to thin them out, makes for an easy match.

[Democratus]

Black Templars are one of the 3 dominating lists in our local tournament scene (along with Orks and Chaos). They can be fielded in either Ork-style hordes that are very difficult to kill before reaching assault range or as elite LRC-transported troops which are also difficult to stop before reaching assault range.

[Phail]

Yeah they kinda are overpowered the power that allows the ENITRE army to have preferred enemy, one of the guys at our LGS plays em and has never lost.

i'm sorry, hi?

to quote myself not too far up the page....



I would even go as far as to say with the new run rules, BT are a bit OP.
So yeah enjoy it while you can because they will be nerfed come the next Codex.

fgs no we are not OP

we got nerfed with the new rulebook

our righteous zeal rule got royally FUCKED with the arrival of 5th edition

Let me explain

in 4th edition (or 3.5th edition w/e idc) the righteous zeal move allowed us to initiate an assault. This therefore meant that the opponent may think to himself "oh, i won't shoot them because then they might (and probably will) reach to assault me"

Whereas in 5th edition you can't consolidate into close combat our righteous zeal move means we have to stop 1" away from the enemy, so now the opponent will be thinking "oh cool, if i shoot them they'll have to move closer to me and therefore i can assault them!"

COMPLETELY fucked us up, so no, we are NOT op and i will feed anyone who says we are to Pox's cesspit, or erm skull throne, or whatever he's sitting on these days :|


i'm getting pissed off by people saying BT are overpowered. You're looking at one little thing out of the codex that gives us some power, yet completely overlooking something which fucks us up so much more badly that it most definitely outweighs the pros.

[Wildonion]

The Player that Jui'My is describing is an excellent general to begin with, has been playing Warhammer 40,000 for years, so that is part of why he has done so well with his Black Templars. The other reason, I believe, is that he runs a well built, mechanized, list.

Everything is either mounted in a transport or is a tank and doesn't need one, which really helps him to close with shooting forces or more mobile ones much quicker. The list has good synergy among the units and, with Preferred Enemy, even his smaller combat units—usually in the form of a command squad packing a couple power weapons/fists—prove to be quite lethal. I don't think that Preferred Enemy is overpowered, though I can see the basis for such an argument, because of the cost (though that is a minor factor when you consider how it is spread to most of the army and that it doesn’t go away if the Emperor’s Champion dies) and the fact that the Zeal moves got nerfed.

He is not unbeatable of course, just a very tough opponent.

***EDIT***

Someone mentioned expensive Preds to be a disadvantage in a previous post, I really don't think that plays into things too much. A Pred with Twin-Linked Lascannon and Extra Armor isn't too pricey and makes for an excellent Tank Hunter or Transport Killer.

[The_Peacemaker]

Just ask the guy to take a different vow for a couple of games and you will see that its not the preffered enemy special rule that wins the games.
Like Wildonion said, the guy is a great general.


Like I said in my previous post:
If you go against a shooty army preffered enemy isn't that great because its overkill. If you go against another close combat army, it really depends on who gets the charges. If 8-10 khorne beserkers with a powerfist champ charges my 12-15man combat squad I'll probably loose. Every khorne beserker gets 4 attacks(strength 5) and have higher intiative. And the power fist champ gets 3 attacks.
But if I charge him then that means I get more attacks and he doesn't get furious charge.

And this goes back to what Lord of Tau was saying about the righteous zeal consolodation nerf.


Black Templare aren't over powered. Its just that instead of loosing the majority of their games they've started winning a few.

NOTE: Tyranids can get preferred enemy extremely cheap(1pt per genestealer, lictors have it for free, etc...) and any other tyranid unit needs 1 model within 1 inch of the genestealers/lictor to give the whole unit preffered enemy.
...suddenly those strength 4 hormoguants aren't too shabby.