[CSM][1850][competitive]

[Skimble Shanks]

I have about a month to tweak my list for a store tournament, any suggestions would be appreciated

-HQ-
Lord with terminator armour, pair of lightning claws
130

-Elite-5 man Terminator squad, 2x chainfist, 3x powerfist, 2x combi-melta, reaper autocannon
245

-Elite-8 man Chosen squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, IoCG, meltabombs for all
219

-Troop-8 man berzerker squad, skull champ w/plasma pistol
198

-Troop- 10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/powerfist, heavy bolter OR meltagun (can you change between battles or do you have to use the same list for every game?)
200

-Troop-
10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/plasma pistol, flamer
185

Rhino for Berzerkers w/extra armour
50

Rhino for CSM squad
35

-H.S.-
Land Raider w/deamonic possession
240

-H.S.-
Defiler w/CCW
150

-H.S.-
6 man Havoc squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, 2x M. Launcher, Lascannon
195

Total
1847

[RustyKnight]

Lord- Give him a mark of Chaos (unless you're going Undivided...then give him a mark anyways). Where is this guy going?

Terminators- Hmm, deepstriking. You'll want to add some more icons for them to do that. I'd also drop two or three of the fists. Drop the Reaper; it's just not point-cost effective.

Chosen- What are they going after that needs that many Meltabombs? And why no special weapons? If you want them to go tank hunting, some Meltas could be very useful.

Berzerkers- I myself would swap the PP for a Power Weapon (Powerfist is the another option, I myself prefer the Initiative bonus).

Chaos Space Marine Squad Alpha- I'd Icon 'em up. Khorne and Chaos Glory are the two more popular (I like to take Tzeentch when points allow, but that's just for theme). I'd also take two Meltaguns with this squad. I'd assume you have to use the same list, but check with the TO.

Chaos Space Marine Squad Beta- Once again, add an Icon. I'd also take a CC weapon on the Champ or drop him. I'd take a second flamer and add a Rhino for this squad.

Land Raider- Same set-up I run. Who's going in this? Or is it just taken to have an AV 14 Lascannon Platform?

Defiler- Lookin' good.

Havocs- Drop the Champ and the weapon, add an Icon of Chaos Glory is you're worried about fleeing. Swap the Lascannon for another two ML's. Frankly, I think that Oblits might fit this role better.

[Skimble Shanks]

Lord- Give him a mark of Chaos (unless you're going Undivided...then give him a mark anyways). Where is this guy going?

he was going to deepstrike with the termi squad

Terminators- Hmm, deepstriking. You'll want to add some more icons for them to do that. I'd also drop two or three of the fists. Drop the Reaper; it's just not point-cost effective.

the power fists or chainfists? they were going to be anti-tank

Chosen- What are they going after that needs that many Meltabombs? And why no special weapons? If you want them to go tank hunting, some Meltas could be very useful.

these guys would start by infiltrating, use the icon for deepstriking termis, then act as anti-tank as well, hence the melta-bombs

Berzerkers- I myself would swap the PP for a Power Weapon (Powerfist is the another option, I myself prefer the Initiative bonus).

duly noted

Chaos Space Marine Squad Alpha- I'd Icon 'em up. Khorne and Chaos Glory are the two more popular (I like to take Tzeentch when points allow, but that's just for theme). I'd also take two Meltaguns with this squad. I'd assume you have to use the same list, but check with the TO.

Chaos Space Marine Squad Beta- Once again, add an Icon. I'd also take a CC weapon on the Champ or drop him. I'd take a second flamer and add a Rhino for this squad.

I'll see how these changes work points-wise for the two squads

Land Raider- Same set-up I run. Who's going in this? Or is it just taken to have an AV 14 Lascannon Platform?

I wasn't planning on anyone going in this, as the termis are deepstriking

Defiler- Lookin' good.

Havocs- Drop the Champ and the weapon, add an Icon of Chaos Glory is you're worried about fleeing. Swap the Lascannon for another two ML's. Frankly, I think that Oblits might fit this role better.

if i am able to purchase, assemble and paint some obliterators in time I may use them, how many is a good amount?

[experiment 626]

I have about a month to tweak my list for a store tournament, any suggestions would be appreciated

-HQ-
Lord with terminator armour, pair of lightning claws
130
+++ give him either the mark of khorne (for an extra attack) or mark of slaanesh (for I6).+++

-Elite-5 man Terminator squad, 2x chainfist, 3x powerfist, 2x combi-melta, reaper autocannon
245
+++ as pointed out lose the autocannon.
- you only need 2 chainfists to be solidly effective vs tanks/MC's. swap the 3 power fists to lightning claw for the re-roll bonus...+++

-Elite-8 man Chosen squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, IoCG, meltabombs for all
219
+++ these guys are compleatly pointless right now... melta bombs are a last resort - NOT! a basic way of dealing with armour!!! (besides, you have krak grenades as standard, and S8 is only needed against a land raider as everything else is either av10 or av11 on the rear...)
overall i'd say ditch the chosen. they're expensive and they have poo options for an elite unit. (more 'zerkers for example can do better in the assault phase thanks to their WS5, while havocs or oblits are a better route for packing heavy firepower...)+++

-Troop-8 man berzerker squad, skull champ w/plasma pistol
198
+++ don't EVER! take a plasma pistol on your champ as it'll only blow him up in the end... give him either a power toy + melta bombs or a power fist.
in general, 'zerkers won't ever shoot anyways, so a PP is a total waste of pts!+++

-Troop- 10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/powerfist, heavy bolter OR meltagun (can you change between battles or do you have to use the same list for every game?)
200
+++ in 99.9% of tournaments you cannot change your list between games...
if you take the heavy bolter, then swap the melta for a plasma gun and sit back and shoot. otherwise go for the 2x meltagun as suggested.+++

-Troop-
10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/plasma pistol, flamer
185
+++ swap plasma pistol to power weapon. blowing up your characters is generally a bad thing! (and yes, in a tournament, you can rest assured that it's your expensive champs who will blow up!)+++

Rhino for Berzerkers w/extra armour
50
+++ put the 'zerkers in the land raider!!! just think how they'll preform now that they can come out of an "Assault" ramp!
give this to the 2nd CSM squad.+++

Rhino for CSM squad
35

-H.S.-
Land Raider w/deamonic possession
240
+++ zerkers should go in here. now they can assault right out of their ride!+++

-H.S.-
Defiler w/CCW
150

-H.S.-
6 man Havoc squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, 2x M. Launcher, Lascannon
195
+++ waaaaaay too small for what is effectively your main ranged anti-tank unit...
lost the aspiring champ (if these guys get into combat, then you've very likely either screwed up big time, or you've already lost so a single power toy won't make a difference!)
get at leat 8, preferably 10 havocs w/4x missile launchers for mazimum flexibility.+++
Total
1847

sorry to say, but overall it's really not that competitive a list at all... you've failed to maximise the options/potential of your squads, and the army just doesn't seem to gel too well... (ie: how are the chosen supposed to tank hunt with just big grenades and why are your best assault troops not utilising the better transport in the land raider?!?)

for a competitive build, try adding some of the following options;
- a summoned greater daemon. for only 100pts you get what is arguably one of the most kick-ass basic stat lines in the game!

- i hate to say it, but a winged daemon prince w/MoS + lash of submission. you typically find at least one in almost every tournament CSm list out there!

- oblits! at least 2-3 at the 1850pts level. they're so adaptable that it isn't even funny!

- plague marines. arguably the best objective holding unit in the game. T5 + FnP means that they can take some serious effort to shift! stick 'em in a rhino and slap them onto a nearby objective. they'll happily act as the anvil of your force and you can center your defense around them as they're so dead 'ard!

- more basic chaos marines. always pair up their special weapons is you're slaping them into a rhino. otherwise give 'em a plasma gun + heavy bolter/autocannon/missile launcher for a solid sit-and-shoot unit!

- icons for the right job! as pointed out, and IoCG is perfect for havocs as it gives them that all important re-roll.
assault based termies would love either an IoK or IoS for extra attacks for better initiative!
an objective holding unit would be a toss-up between IoCG (cheap and re-roll moral) or IoN (rather expensive but T5 is solid when combined with a decent cover save!)

- the right upgrades for the right champs. a 'zerker unit is almost never going to shoot. thus a plasma pistol is a total waste... (if you're not riding in a transport or running or setting-up/in assault then something's very wrong!)
a sit-and-shoot unit of chaos marines is likely to get very little use out of an expensive power fist. don't invest in anything more than say a power toy.
conversely, since plague marines have I3, a power fist is great for their champs since they're likely going simul or last to begin with!


hope this helps,
cheers!

[Skimble Shanks]

Experiment 626 (and everyone else for that matter)- thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely sit down and rework my list tonight. this is exactly why I wanted to get this done way ahead of time, I'll have to do a few weapon swaps/conversions, and probably order a couple things (a couple missile launchers and/or a couple obliterators)

if anyone else has an idea feel free to pitch in!

[Skimble Shanks]

here is the revised list:

-HQ-
Lord with terminator armour, pair of lightning claws, MoK
140

-Elite-5 man Terminator squad, 2x chainfist, 3x lightning claw, 2x combi-melta, MoK
250

-Elite-8 man Chosen squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, IoCG, 2x Meltas
199

-Troop-8 man berzerker squad, skull champ w/powerweapon and personal icon
203

-Troop- 10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, heavy bolter, plasma gun, IoS
225

-Troop-
10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/powerfist, 2x flamer, IoS
220

Rhino for Squad Alpha
35

Rhino for Squad Beta
35

-H.S.-
Land Raider w/deamonic possession for berzerkers
240

-H.S.-
Defiler w/CCW
150

-H.S.-
2x Obliterators
150

Total
1847

[Le Shirrif]

I have about a month to tweak my list for a store tournament, any suggestions would be appreciated

-HQ-
Lord with terminator armour, pair of lightning claws
130
A mark would improve him. Either Tzeentch for a good invulnerable save, or Khorne for more CC killiness.
-Elite-5 man Terminator squad, 2x chainfist, 3x powerfist, 2x combi-melta, reaper autocannon
245
Unless you face lots of skimmers/low AV vehicles remove the autocannon. Use the points for a mark, either Tzeentch or Khorne. Also, I say that 2 combi-meltas don't seem to be enough most of the time!

-Elite-8 man Chosen squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, IoCG, meltabombs for all
219
Don't like this. Remove meltabombs. Try to get special weapons in - thats why you buy the squad! Meltas are nice for tank killing, or Flamers for tasting troops. Any kind of troops.-Troop-8 man berzerker squad, skull champ w/plasma pistol
198
Remove the plasma pistol. Add Power Fist.

-Troop- 10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/powerfist, heavy bolter OR meltagun (can you change between battles or do you have to use the same list for every game?)
200
[color=#FF0000]I would say use the same list. I would then say that if you use the Heavy Bolter, remove the fist.color]
-Troop-
10 man CSM squad, Asp. Champ w/plasma pistol, flamer
185
No need for plasma pistol. Add a power weapon.

Rhino for Berzerkers w/extra armour
50

Rhino for CSM squad
35

-H.S.-
Land Raider w/deamonic possession
240
Hmm. Is this transporting the termies? If so it's fine. However, I generally find Land Raiders aren't worth it in chaos armies. Not sure why, they just don't seem to work, at least not for me.

-H.S.-
Defiler w/CCW
150
Good.
-H.S.-
6 man Havoc squad, Asp. Champ w/power weapon, 2x M. Launcher, Lascannon
195
NONONO! Never take a power weapon in a havoc squad! I would go 6X marines with 4 MLs.
Total
1847