Beginning Fantasy: Tomb Kings or Lizardmen

[TheOtherWhiteMeat]

After a year of absence from all tabletop games, I've decided to begin fantasy. I used to play (Black Legion) Chaos Space Marines and Tyranids for 40K during the 4th edition, but they are both gong up on eBay due to spatial issues. My main motivation for playing Warhammer has been a newly discovered club at my school that plays Warhammer, Axis and Allies, and a little of 40K. Here in lies my problem, as I don't own a Warhammer army, and there is only one 40K player.

I've always like the Vampire Counts, but the painting process seems advanced (keeping in mind that I would like to respect the models' colorful styles as much as possible, without drowning the palette).

The Tomb Kings were naturally next, with yellow and blue garments as the main scheme and a dusty/darkened bone color. The army would be enjoyable to paint, yet I feel I might be suffocated artistically by the monotonous colors down the road. Has anyone seen Tomb kings that were not yellow/blue? Links would be appreciated

The Lizardmen grabbed my attention next, with the Stegadons and the possible color combinations. A few models are stunning (Stegadon and Krog-Gar on the Carnosaur) and more than one paint scheme can be used, but I hear a new army book came out and people are buying Lizardmen by the dozens. I'd like to be unique, but sometimes it's nice being the same, y'know?

Keep in mind that I was not very good at 40K, and most likely will not be great at Warhammer. I'm still unfamiliar with the rules, so I'm getting Battle for Skull Pass, and maybe a small blister from each army to experiment with colors and modeling. I obviously will not buy any more than a blister until I've come to grips with my choice/the game's rules.

The other armies were either decidedly difficult to paint or difficult to play with (as I have heard), leaving me with these two, Lizardmen and Tomb Kings. Any advice, words of warning, or opinions are welcomed.

[Gendoikari87]

Lizardmen, why? They are deceptively nuanced when it comes to painting but not very difficult. Lizardmen can be done simply and still look good, or you can spend your time getting all of the tiny detail and make them look absolutely stunning. In combat Lizardmen are very forgiving, They have some of the toughest nuts to crack in fantasy as far as core units go. They also have some really neat mages.

[WindlordRyu]

Has anyone seen Tomb kings that were not yellow/blue? Links would be appreciated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1w0vU0i1Ls
Red-ish tomb kings at ~6:00

[Matt1785]

Personally, if you want to buy an army that is really fun to play and is cool looking, I'd say hold off on buying anything until November, pick up the new Skaven Army Book, and enjoy the flood of rat men!

However, since you've already made up your mind on the two. I'd suggest Lizardmen, because as stated above, they can be very forgiving on the table, and can also be either very easy to paint or very hard depending on how in depth you want to get.

Most people at my store say that Tomb Kings are a hard army to play if you're new. I'd also suggest searching the forums and looking up Vivi's little introduction to Fantasy, it's very well written and offers advice on armies. Good luck to yah. I'm going to be holding out for the new Skaven Book.

[Forgon]

If it is for style or for the fluff, take the one that seems like the coolest. There is more lizardmen army out there than tomb king, as I recall. Lizardmen have an advantage: they got the new army book. But undeads are cool to play too: you are fearless and you cause fear to the opponent. Khemri got a lot of chariots (units of them). It is a cool concept, that no other army has. You also get to do a powerful shooting combo with Kalida, but personally I don't like special characters. but they are more difficult to play, being slow, weak and not so cheap. But you can raise them again! Well, whatsoever, when the new tomb king army book come out, you'll surely be happy. Anyway, take an army for three things: you like it? You like the feel to it? You like the way to play them? Personnaly, I prefer tomb king, but Lizardmen are stronger for now. (the new army books are a great boost)

[TheOtherWhiteMeat]

Choices, choices...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1w0vU0i1Ls
Red-ish tomb kings at ~6:00

Very good looking, but the red/gold combo reminds me too much of my blasted Khorne 'Zerkers (my friends all got me berzerkers on accident for my birthday once, and I still haven't finished them all). I'd like to do more of a deep purple with gold trim, even though the purple is mostly associated with the Europeans rather than Egyptians, who favored earth tones (I do know the Kings aren't from Egypt, but same thing, eh?).

Personally, if you want to buy an army that is really fun to play and is cool looking, I'd say hold off on buying anything until November, pick up the new Skaven Army Book, and enjoy the flood of rat men!

I originally was going to include the Skaven in the original post, but if I heard correctly they can be an army of thousands when at the bare bones minimum. Mass painting won't allow the detail I would like, and I would most likely just buy a box at a time to keep the model numbers from overwhelming me. Also, space is a concern, as my closet shelf is only so large.

However, since you've already made up your mind on the two. I'd suggest Lizardmen, because as stated above, they can be very forgiving on the table, and can also be either very easy to paint or very hard depending on how in depth you want to get.

Would forgiving mean versatile, or straight and narrow (i.e. Would the list have to have a certain number of this or that just to be viable, or can the list be varied and still have a chance of winning?)

This weekend I will trek down to the local GW and buy Battle for Skull Pass. From there I've decided to get a blister pack to work on/finalize a color palette, then grab a box. Any opinions on what to buy first with them? I'm only asking now to save from making a post in a month asking the same thing. I'd rather not buy the $90 box, but rather a core unit at a time, to flesh out my paint scheme over time.

Thanks for all of the posts. Every one of them helped

[Gendoikari87]

can someone post a link to this "Vivi's little introduction to Fantasy"?

[WindlordRyu]

It's the "New to fantasy" sticky right at the top of the page.

I don't know much about TKs or Lizardmen but I would suggest a box of Skeleton Warriors or Saurus Warriors as these seems to be the most basic troops of each army.

[Gendoikari87]

saurus warriors can hardly be called core units. they have the same stats as other races special units.

[TheOtherWhiteMeat]

I don't know much about TKs or Lizardmen but I would suggest a box of Skeleton Warriors or Saurus Warriors as these seems to be the most basic troops of each army.

Hmm, I'll check out the Saurus soon. I'd only asked to make sure I got a useful unit rather than one with limited potential use.

Would anyone happen to know if the Battle of Skull Pass comes with paints? On the site it does not have paints listed under the description. I did happen to see a Battle for Skull Pass Paint Set, which seems like a rip off. $75 for the box, and an extra $25 for paints and 10 minis?? Ridiculous. I do have some paints, but not nearly enough green for this job.

(Sorry if I'm asking many questions, I just don't have much money to throw away right now )

[Gendoikari87]

I don't know much about TKs or Lizardmen but I would suggest a box of Skeleton Warriors or Saurus Warriors as these seems to be the most basic troops of each army.

Hmm, I'll check out the Saurus soon. I'd only asked to make sure I got a useful unit rather than one with limited potential use.

Would anyone happen to know if the Battle of Skull Pass comes with paints? On the site it does not have paints listed under the description. I did happen to see a Battle for Skull Pass Paint Set, which seems like a rip off. $75 for the box, and an extra $25 for paints and 10 minis?? Ridiculous. I do have some paints, but not nearly enough green for this job.

(Sorry if I'm asking many questions, I just don't have much money to throw away right now )

unless your getting gobbos or dwarves you don't need the battle for skull pass. it doesn't have any TK or LM in it.

[×ÏVÏøøÐz×]

Lizardmen would be the choice here, as already been said, between them and Tomb Kings, Lizardmen are far superior if your just starting.

Their a great all rounder army, tough core choices (not as tough as Chaos Core, however :wink: ) but none the less, their tough. They have great magic capabilities, and are just generally a great army with alot of balance....i can't say much concerning them, because most of it has already been said. And I don't want to repeat what has been said <_<

I was going to start Tomb Kings, but I was told their not really that great anymore, I think, due to their book being so old? I can't remember the exact reasons. I think they suffer from the same issue as DE in 40k (as in, old book, meaning their underpowered and can't perform as well on the TT as they used to), I mean they can do well in friendly games, but still Lizardmen are superior.

If anything, before you buy any units or boxes, buy the Army Book along with Skull Pass if your getting it. If your starting a new army, it's always best to get the Army Book so you can plan lists ahead, and know for fact what you'll need to buy. And that way you can posts lists on here for people to critique and help you with so you can figure out exactly what to buy.

Skull Pass doesn't come with paints, no. But about it. Unless your playing Dwarves or Orcs, then it isn't as great a deal for you. However! You can always buy it, and then after you've learnt the rules and such, keep the books, and sell off the models to other people for extra funds for whichever army your buying. Seems to work well for some people. Were it me I'd just go ahead and buy it, it's a great way to learn the rules...No matter if your playing the armies included or not

Hope I was slightly helpful...Heh, probably not, but y'know.

[TheOtherWhiteMeat]

unless your getting gobbos or dwarves you don't need the battle for skull pass. it doesn't have any TK or LM in it.

I am really getting Skull Pass to get a feel for the overall form of Fantasy, as I still know nothing. The giant tome with the fluff and rules is nice, but without models and such, it would be hard to understand some of the more intricate aspects of the game, I assume.

Lizardmen would be the choice here, as already been said, between them and Tomb Kings, Lizardmen are far superior if your just starting.

Their a great all rounder army, tough core choices (not as tough as Chaos Core, however :wink: ) but none the less, their tough. They have great magic capabilities, and are just generally a great army with alot of balance....i can't say much concerning them, because most of it has already been said. And I don't want to repeat what has been said <_<

I was going to start Tomb Kings, but I was told their not really that great anymore, I think, due to their book being so old? I can't remember the exact reasons. I think they suffer from the same issue as DE in 40k (as in, old book, meaning their underpowered and can't perform as well on the TT as they used to), I mean they can do well in friendly games, but still Lizardmen are superior.

If anything, before you buy any units or boxes, buy the Army Book along with Skull Pass if your getting it. If your starting a new army, it's always best to get the Army Book so you can plan lists ahead, and know for fact what you'll need to buy. And that way you can posts lists on here for people to critique and help you with so you can figure out exactly what to buy.

Skull Pass doesn't come with paints, no. But about it. Unless your playing Dwarves or Orcs, then it isn't as great a deal for you. However! You can always buy it, and then after you've learnt the rules and such, keep the books, and sell off the models to other people for extra funds for whichever army your buying. Seems to work well for some people. Were it me I'd just go ahead and buy it, it's a great way to learn the rules...No matter if your playing the armies included or not

Hope I was slightly helpful...Heh, probably not, but y'know.

^^ Very helpful post!

Totally forgot about the rule book situation with Tomb Kings, as I had heard that earlier. If I am not mistaken, the club has an Orc player, a Chaos player, and a High Elf player (I think that was it...). I did trade some of my old Space Marines from the 4th ed. starter kit and it all worked out well, so I might just do that with the dwarves/goblins.

I also forgot to mention earlier that I read Vivi's excellent post on Fantasy for newcomers, so no links to that are necessary.

Does anyone have a solid beginner list for Lizardmen? I might not be on for a few days, so I'd like to flesh out some ideas on paper about the army when I have the rulebook. Mostly solid, tough units is what I'm looking at, just so I don't have an army of skirmishers I can't use properly. Sorry to berate with questions again. All Q&C welcome.

[Liam]

Based off the easy to buy stuff. However I don't have the lizardmen Book.

1x Batalion, 1x Stegadon Kit

1 Saraus Scar-Vet, Cold One, Enchanted Shield, Cheap Magic Weapon, Light Armour ~ 130pts
1 Skink Priest, Lv2, Wardrums, Scroll. Mounted on an Engine of the Gods ~ 400pts

12 Skink Skirmishes ~ 90pts
20 Saraus Warriors, Spears, Full Command ~ 240pts
10 Temple Guard, Full Command ~ 140pts
7 Saraus Cav, Full Command ~ 240pts

Nice Simple 1000pt List from two boxed sets

[TheOtherWhiteMeat]

Based off the easy to buy stuff. However I don't have the lizardmen Book.

1x Batalion, 1x Stegadon Kit

1 Saraus Scar-Vet, Cold One, Enchanted Shield, Cheap Magic Weapon, Light Armour ~ 130pts
1 Skink Priest, Lv2, Wardrums, Scroll. Mounted on an Engine of the Gods ~ 400pts

12 Skink Skirmishes ~ 90pts
20 Saraus Warriors, Spears, Full Command ~ 240pts
10 Temple Guard, Full Command ~ 140pts
7 Saraus Cav, Full Command ~ 240pts

Nice Simple 1000pt List from two boxed sets

Where is the Stegadon?

[Liam]

The Lv2 Skink Priests Mount is the Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods on it's back, sorry, should have made that clearer

[TheOtherWhiteMeat]

The Lv2 Skink Priests Mount is the Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods on it's back, sorry, should have made that clearer

Aha. Holding out on me eh?

Where di you get the priest from? 12 skins in a battalion.

[Liam]

He's in the Box as well, it's an awesome Boxed Set.

Comes with 1 Stegadon, can be made as a Normal Stegadon if you wish (Special Choice), can also be made an an Ancient Stegadon (Twin Blowpies). Can also be made as an Ancient Stegadon as a mount for a Skink Chief (who's in the boxed set) and, finally, as an Ancient Stegadon with an Engine of the Gods on Top with the Skink Priest Riding it (who's ALSO in the boxed set). Its all different kinds of flavours of awesome!

[Gendoikari87]

You forgot the steg warspear is also in there. It's not just an amazingly well priced kit from GW but also one of the better units availible to the lizardmen. At least as shock an' awe tactic to help steer your opponents into the right place.

[Liam]

... as an Ancient Stegadon as a mount for a Skink Chief (who's in the boxed set) ...

I think you'll find that I didn't forget that was in there, that isn't the only weapon option as you can convert from the skink priest or just not have the warspear, you know, like not being that predictable