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  1. #1

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    Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Tonight, I played a game against a Space Marine army. His Librarian had a spell he could cast at the beginning of every one of his turns called "null zone". This ability made it to where anything within 24" of him had to re-roll inv. saves throughout his entire turn. This SUCKED for my Khorne army! I have a couple of questions about this.....

    #1) Does this "null zone" take the place of any of the three phases for the marine player (move, shoot, assault)? Is there any phase usage for this ability or can the marine player just throw it out on every turn and still be able to move, shoot and assault?

    #2) Is it a 24" circle around the Librarian (meaning 12 inches any way), or is it 24" in any direction? Considering a legal table is only 48" X 72", one Librarian can essentially consume well over half of the entire table with that crap.

    #3) Is there any real effective way for a Daemon army to counter it?


    Thanks in advance for any help with this!!

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    ....kill the librarian?
    I believe it is any model within 12" of the libby, so yes, a circle with a 24" diameter.


    What Psychic defenses do you have available?

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Cast in the space marine shooting phase and affects all units with 24" and lasts till the end of turn really screws over daemons big time.

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Originally Posted by Cliffhanger1392

    #1) Does this "null zone" take the place of any of the three phases for the marine player (move, shoot, assault)? Is there any phase usage for this ability or can the marine player just throw it out on every turn and still be able to move, shoot and assault?

    it's actualyl cast at the beginning of the shooting phase. The libby can still act as normal before and after casting

    #2) Is it a 24" circle around the Librarian (meaning 12 inches any way), or is it 24" in any direction? Considering a legal table is only 48" X 72", one Librarian can essentially consume well over half of the entire table with that crap.

    IIRC, the range is 24" around the librarian. So 24" radius, now this can be increased further by a bit, if the libby is in a transport, say a Land Raider, you would measure from the hull fo the vehicle.

    #3) Is there any real effective way for a Daemon army to counter it?

    kill the librarian or run fateweaver.

    It's one of the most effective powers to use against Daemons, you can probably see why.



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  5. #5
    Top Arm-Chair General Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Yes, Null Zone really sucks for deamons. The best you can do is charge the libby's unit and beat his face in. Or run the Fateweaver.

    GW does not hate non-Space Marine armies. They just don't give a FAQ.

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Originally Posted by Cliffhanger1392
    #2) Is it a 24" circle around the Librarian (meaning 12 inches any way), or is it 24" in any direction? Considering a legal table is only 48" X 72", one Librarian can essentially consume well over half of the entire table with that crap.
    !!
    The SM codex says "all enemy units within 24 inches of the Librarian," so I would read it as being the larger of the two circles you imagined (2 feet in either direction!). While this really does unbalance the Librarian against chaos armies, keep in mind that most armies aren't built so heavily on invuln saves. As to dealing with this problem, my advice is the same as everyone else's. Kill the Libby!

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Of course one way around this would be to not use a purely Khorne army. Themed armies (especially Daemons) generically suck - some Plaguebearers in there would be able to stand up a bit more. Other than that Bloodcrushers have an armour save. Soul Grinders are always good.

    But echoing other forumites - removing the Librarian, goes quite a long way to removing the power.

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Im also going to express that I strongly do not recomend taking fateweaver as a counter to Null Zone. why:

    A) fateweaver costs 333pts. that is a HUGE cost for a simple counter.
    B) you cannot re-roll a re-roll, so any saves that nullzone causes to fail, will still be failures.
    c) in my experiance, fateweaver only benifits a few units (enough to justify his cost). bloodcrushers, GDoK, and daemon princes with armor, or anything with a 4+ or better save (so Tz units). unless you are using a lot of these, the points might be better spent on more units.
    d) fateweaver himself is one of the most vunerable targets to nullzone in the daemon army.

    Now i play a lot more Tz than Khorne, but i have had tremendous luck against nullzone libbys using the MSU (Multiple Small Units) tactic. basically, if you are running 3 units of 10 bloodletters, split them into 6 units of 5. present your oponent with more targets to shoot than he has units to shoot with, and you are more likley to something into CC.

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  9. #9
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    just a question regarding Null - is this a power all Libbies have ? or is it one they must buy before the game ?
    Since its rather funny if its the latter ....

    my point is ... SM are pansies affraid of a good fight.
    Null is cheasy beyond any end ... make him try fighting you without that cheasy stinking Null ...
    if he refuses ... ask him why many SM players cry when facing ork KFF's
    Other than that ... shout Waaagh!! and punch him in the face

    yeah

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    It is one of 2 powers that they choose before the game. It's not something purchased, it's part of the model's point cost.

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  11. #11
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Originally Posted by Durandal
    What Psychic defenses do you have available?
    Good one!


    Oh wait, you're probably serious. Umm... Flesh Hounds and upgraded Bloodthirsters get a good save vs psy. That's it in the whole dex.

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  12. #12
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Given that your "psykers" are immune to all other defenses, I can't really say it it's unfair.

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    Top Arm-Chair General Ron's Avatar
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Originally Posted by Durandal
    Given that your "psykers" are immune to all other defenses, I can't really say it it's unfair.
    Just the same way that bolters go through psychic defense. They are not psychic powers, they are shooting attacks!

    GW does not hate non-Space Marine armies. They just don't give a FAQ.

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  14. #14
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    On the interaction of Fateweaver and Nullzone: because they don't effect the same rolls (as one allows re-rolls on failed saves and the other forces re-rolls on passes), essentially you roll the dice, then pick them all up and roll them again, as you have to re-roll all passes and fails. The second roll is the one that stands, due to not being able to re-roll a re-roll as Rah said. So if that situation does come up, there it is.

    However, as Rah said, Fateweaver is a terrible counter to that Librarian. 3 times the cost, more vulnerable (as it can't be hidden in a squad), and all it's doing is balancing out the power, bringing you back to square one, essentially.

    Librarians don't have an invulnerable save, have a 3+ armor save, and only have 2 wounds. That means, just drown the squad to get to the Librarian. It's priority one. Especially helpful for that are Horrors (due to high numbers of shots), Daemonettes (high number of attacks with Rending), and Bloodletters (good number of power weapon attacks). I know that it's easier said than done, but there it is. Also, the powers are selected when the list is written, so if your opponent picks it when he finds out he's playing you, he's either tailoring (writing the list after he finds out he's playing you) or cheating (not playing the list he has written out).

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    yeah i guess that was what i was asking .... the opponent has to either:

    1: choose Null before game start .. or

    2: suddenly remind himself that Null is awesome against a Bloodlist

    lets face it guys ... how many would choose Null when battling against most other armies ... ??

    Answer: Null ie. Zero ... zip ... nada ...

    so again .... shout Waaagh ! and punch him in the face, cus no matter how much he tries to convince you otherwise ... he is a cheesy nogood lazy git ....

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    lets face it guys ... how many would choose Null when battling against most other armies ... ??
    All the time? It's an awesome power that works on plenty of armies. Storm Shields got ya down? That Shadow Field giving you problems? Null Zone's got yer back.

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Yep, that ^

    I took Null Zone in my 'Ard Boyz list because I knew that there would be enough hard units with invulnerable saves on the table to justify it. The aforementioned uses, as well as Fortuned Seer Councils, Nob Bikers with 5+ invulnerable save, all the new characters with a 3++, and so on. It performed admirably.

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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    I stand corrected

    ..... but its still cheasy against daemons

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  19. #19
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    No, it's not. Compared to entire units equipped with power swords or Flamers of Tzeentch, it doesn't come close to wafting of curdled bovine lactate.

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  20. #20
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    Re: Space Marine Librarian With Null Zone!! WTF ?!?!

    Originally Posted by edmundblack
    No, it's not. Compared to entire units equipped with power swords or Flamers of Tzeentch, it doesn't come close to wafting of curdled bovine lactate.
    I think it's cheesy- because compared to Daemons, it's relatively cheap. And it came out straight after the Daemons codex as a way to nullify their main strength.

    Though - I'm not saying it was designed entirely to be used against Daemons, I just think that the recently created Daemons codex weighed somewhat in their minds.

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