Sanguinary Guard: Worth it?

[SonsOfStalingrad]

Just looking through the Blood Angels codex. I'm torn between taking Dante as my commander and using Sanguinary Guard as a troops choice, or kitting out some cheaper assault squads instead. I've not done Marines in ages, so i'm pretty rusty. Looking to build a fast assault army.

[Xhukari]

I believe it depends how you want to do it. You could pile in the points into troop Sang Guard, having more meaty units, but less of & less models. But which can deal with more themselves.

Or you can have greater numbers in which to have more tactical versatility with more units to move and using numbers to win the day. But which are less capable against others.

Really depends how you want to play!

Note; all speculation.

[Leonartes]

But they are pretty Sos, arent they?

[Lucian]

From my experiences, then no they are not worth it. They are a big "Shoot me with plasma and you will get a few KP" unit. If they had acces to Stormshields, then yes please but sadly no.

[Immortal]

Interesting thread, and you read my mind, i was talking to my mate at work today about them and thinking if they were worth the pts cost. In the end i'm probably just going for 3x Assault squads for my troops.

[Angelofblades]

I've been testing them quite recently in a sanguinor list, just to try and get more attacks out of them and combo with a priest to get assured Furious Charge, and additional FnP.

They're not worth it imho, especially with their points cost. If glaive encarmines were 2 handed frost axes instead, then they would be worth it. If you could take more than 5 in a squad, then they would be worth it, if they were at least WS5 for their "fluff," and possibly had Heroic Intervention Then they would be worth it.

Problem is, they only have an 18" charge range, whereas an assault squad coming out of a LR has about a 21" range.

They're not a strong enough hammer unit, not enough attacks, only S4, and not enough of them.

I play them for "fun" games

I'd rather take Vangaurd Vets w/ jump packs.

You want dedicated kill units for BA, Terminators, Honor guard and Death Co.

[SonsOfStalingrad]

It's a specific themed army Sammich and I are doing. We need Jump Packs where possible, Land Speeders and one tac squad in a drop pod (cuz then it can deploy on turn 1 under 'drop pod assault') - I like that BA can have assault squads as troops so that they're scoring units, but i'm not sure that assault squads can deal with versatility in both anti-armour and anti-infantry.

[Angelofblades]

And just how exactly would you compare the anti tank and anti-infanty capabilities of Assault squads vs a Tactical squad?

Let's see, A tactical squad's main capability is that it can shoot, VS infantry it's mainly bolters, a melta or plasma gun and then a heavy weapon. Now let's take the way you're drop podding them in, then it's several bolter shots, a single special weapon shot and no heavy weapon shot, since disembarking from a vehicle counts as moving.

Whereas the assault squad:
A) "free" drop pod.
B) 2 special weapons, this gives you the possibility combat squad the assault squad out of the drop pod and blow two pieces of armor away with melta guns, or cause judicious death on one.
C) Honestly, there is no better way to deal with Armor than to punch it. Hit it with several S5/ S6shots to rear armor, then hopefully immobilize it, and if it still lives, a few S9 auto hits should take care of the matter.
D) Do I need to explain the anti-infantry capability of an assault squad? Needless to say, that bolt pistols + charge > rapid fire. Especially since you can enhance your capabilty in close combat, better than shooting. BA have fewer bonuses in shooting, than they do in CC.

The one thing that Tactical squads have over the Assault squad is range. But that's a moot point anyways, since Tac squads often find themselves at short range anyways to rapid fire.

There is almost no theater that Tactical squads outperform Assault squads

[SonsOfStalingrad]

Aha, Gotcha on that - but would it be worth doing an Assault Squad in a Drop Pod, or would it be worth keeping the J-P's on them and using the lone Drop Pod for a vet squad? Is their special ammo and combi-weapon capability effective at taking out a unit or vehicle on the drop?

[Angelofblades]

Write a list and play test it. How many pta are u playing at? I can say you will be short on points

[SonsOfStalingrad]

starting at 1k, expanding to 2 over time.

[rancidaluminium]

i played a 1000 point game the other week and took in sanguinary guard aswell as another assault, 2 tactical squads, rhino, vindicator and baal predator, yes they are expensive but while my 2 tactical squads went for the objectives, my sanguinary and other assault went around the field demolishing everything, well my standard assault troops got whittled away by turn 3 the sanguinary guard raped and pillaged everything and even in extra turns i hadnt lost 1 model, they went through 200 points of IG troops and a vanquisher before jetting off and taking out 300 points of crimson fists, the rest ran the oter side of a wall to avoid getting their arse handed to them! lost story short, i found them a priceless squad

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

In regards to the first question though - Sanguinary Guard: Good or Not?:

Sanguinary Guard are better than most jump pack troops in the army when they receive a charge.
Death Company, properly equipped, are better off when charging the enemy.
Vanguard Veterans - About the same as Sanguinary Guard effectiveness-wise + can get more survivability via Storm Shields.
Honour Guard - Flexible as well.
Assault Squad - Flexible, more shooty capable than Vanguards, Death Company, and Sanguinary Guards.

Overall? I think it's a matter of what role you need filling.

Sanguinary Guard - 2+ Saves, Power Weapons.
Honour Guard - Flexible Strike Team, FNP/FC Bubble, access to special weapons (melta/flamer/plas)
Vanguard Vets - Anti-Bubblewrap, Flexible Strike Team
Assault Squad - Access to special weapons
Death Company - Lemartes; WS 5 (Hits on 3's is a big change compared to every other Jump Pack troopers in the army list.)

As far as a 2k goes, here's what my friend runs for a Dante theme'd army with Sanguinary Guard as a focus:

HQ -
Dante
Librarian w/Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguine

Elites -
Sanguinary Priest x2 w/Jump Packs
Sanguinary Priest

Troops -
10x ASM w/2x meltagun, Thunder Hammer
5x Sanguinary Guard w/2x infernous pistol, PFist
5x Sanguinary Guard w/2x infernous pistol, PFist
5x Sanguinary Guard w/2x infernous pistol, PFist

Heavy Support -
5x Devastators w/2x ML
10x Devastators w/4x ML
10x Devastators w/4x ML

Totals: 2000 pts