A very interesting article...

[FarseerKyra]

So I know this will probably be a touchy subject, but i found this article and i think it brings up a lot of good points. As a female interested in WH40K, i feel the ideas in this article should be brought to the greater communitie's attention, if they haven't already. So go ahead, give it a read, its not short. I'll wait.

http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarsgirls.html

Done? okay, now a poll. If somebody (male or female, dosen't matter) made up a Marine chapter with some female marines in it, (probably developed after the recovery of a STC that allows it or something), how many of you would really object? That is, if the fluff for said chapter was good and 'fit' with the general spirit of WH40K?

[Andon]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. Hell I've done it. The fluff doesn't bind anyone to anything that they don't want to be bound to. There's no rule that your Marines can't be female. There's no rule that your Marines can't be three feet tall because of their homeworld.

[Novasry]

It really needs to be very well developed, it's been established that Marines simply cannot be female because of inherent genetic problems... Theres a good article on Bolter and Chainsword that explores the possibility...

[FarseerKyra]

Well, I was already toying around with a recovered STC idea before i even came across this article. it would make sense to me that people from the Dark Age of Technology had already figured out a way to get around the inherent genetic problems. And the whole chapter won't be female; I was thinking something along the lines of a remote deathworld where human beings in general are very scarce, maybe only a few hundred thousand for the whole planet. In that case, you take whatever candidate you can for your chapter, male or female. (probably gonna have that be the same planet where the STC was discovered.)

[Novasry]

The problem with the STC Idea was there were no marines back then, the Marines were created AFTER the Age of Strife by the emperor, so there would have been no need for an STC like that...

[FarseerKyra]

Ah, good point. Could the STC be something else related to genetic engineering, then? maybe gives people the clues they need to figure out how to make stable female SMs? I find it hard to believe that genetic engineering wasn't around at all before the primarchs.

[Andon]

BUT. You COULD do an STC on genetic modifications that an enterprising techmage/techpriest could use to overcome the issues with making women into a Marine

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Remember that the High Lords of Terra commission new Chapters and the initial geneseed stock is cultivated by the Mechanicum, requiring the involvement of both agencies and a parent chapter. Also, the Mechanicum has complete dominion over STCs. Therefore, if said STC was discovered, it would be bundled up by the AM and taken to Mars for study. Then after they've figured out how it works and how to reproduce it, it would either be held onto for political reasons or disseminated among the worlds of the Imperium, reaching only the most important of worlds. Agri-worlds, feudal worlds, and deathworlds would all be considered unworthy candidates for such prized and rare tech.

Not trying to say it can't be explained, it'd just take some creativity.

I personally (i.e. for my self and my perception of the universe) am not a fan of female marines just due to fluff reasons, but I'm not rabid at the mouth about it. It's your universe, and if you feel there should be female marines, more power to ya.

[FarseerKyra]

Thank you, Brother-Captain Sharp. I can do something with that information, definitely.

In that case, what motivates the High Lords to create a new chapter?

[Masshuu]

I think that there is a chance that the whole "No Female Marines = Less Female Fans" could be the other way around, as in "We don't have many female fans, there's not much point in trying to appeal to that market".
I think the White Tigers website is pretty cool though, I dnt see the problem with Female Marines, at the end of the day when playing warhammer 40k they'd still be the same as male marines except they'd look different.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Thank you, Brother-Captain Sharp. I can do something with that information, definitely.

In that case, what motivates the High Lords to create a new chapter?

Need mostly. Foundings (creation of multiple chapters) are declared every once in a while when the High Lords see a strategic need. It seems like they would just want to continually create new chapters, but politics and power plays limit how many are created. Space Marine chapters enjoy a huge amount of autonomy and the control that the Imperium exercises over their actions is tenuous at best. Of course Space Marine chapters are dedicated to fighting for the Imperium's good, so this lack of control is usually not an issue. However, there have been situations where a chapter or even multiple chapters have gone renegade and need to be brought in line. (The Badab War is a good example of this) If there were too many chapters, the Inquisition would not be able to police them (the Inquisition is the main body for declaring a chapter's actions treacherous or excommunicating the chapter and leading a purge). Therefore, the goal of the High Lords of Terra is to create enough Space Marine chapters to protect the Imperium sufficiently, but just enough. Any more, and the threat of a large Space Marine betrayal could cripple the Imperium (essentially the Hours Heresy at smaller scales).

Hope that helped.

[Dragonknights]

Maybe not the correct way of seeing this, but the Sisters of Battle are generally considered to be the female versions of Space Marines. They use Power Armor and Bolter as their main armament. The difference is that they are not genetically enhanced but instead they receive power by faith. This makes them almost on equal term against marines. The Sister of Battle are a bit more numerous on a battle field, because they are slightly a bit weaker.

But that's okay because woman are physically weaker then man but that doesn't mean they know how to fight. Yeah it's safe too say that some see Sister of Battle as a female Space Marine army.

[The Dark Pwner]

"When you buy into this axiom, you’re perpetuating the absurd notion that science will discover aliens that look like Elrond or Arwen from Lord of the Rings before it will manage to make women bigger, faster, stronger, and tougher than they are today." BEST LINE EVAR!

Oh and screw other players. Female Marines fck yer!

[SonsOfStalingrad]

I'd have no problem playing against female marines. Heck, we already have a chapter based on WOLVES and forge world just revived the space sharks, super-powered women aren't half as crazy as those chapters.

[warchitect]

Cool article, my god, why don't people let others play what the hell they want to play. its as if that guyss "intellectual conversation about rules" is a mask for his misogyny. reminds me of little children when one tell the other "your not playing right"
this game has an open ended aspect to it so as to appeal to a lot of different types. So what is GW states no girls in a WD mag. I simply can't think of a valid reason why there cant be female marines in some chicks army. When I show up with my Eldar Craftwold, and its not one of the typical one, man The idiot that opened him mouth will get smacked down verbally. I simply don't need to explain myself to no one, if they ask nice, well they get a little back story. BUT ITS NOT REQUIRED!, so comments like " well her fluff is not up to par" or whatever are not relevant.

Sorry for ranting a little, it just seems to me that there is really only one side of the fence to be on regarding this. might as well say there cant be any black marines...(i know, I know, there are plenty, just a "what if")

[Dimitri]

I see no issue with it, so long as the models are well-done, and there's a logical reason behind it.
I've seen some that were in the 'OMGBEWBS!!11' vein, and that just struck me as immature. I've also seen some beautifully done models.

Here's a question; do they -have- to be space marines?
Why not a long-lost splinter faction of the Imperium that actually has access to higher technologies like cloning and genetic manipulation? In a situation like that, gender would be a relative non issue, and things would be on relatively equal ground.
Plus, you could do some stuff with the models that would definitely make them stand out.

Honestly, that's one of the few 40K involved projects I could see myself doing.

[Durandal]

"When you buy into this axiom, you’re perpetuating the absurd notion that science will discover aliens that look like Elrond or Arwen from Lord of the Rings before it will manage to make women bigger, faster, stronger, and tougher than they are today." BEST LINE EVAR!

That's a terrible line. The entire backdrop of the Imperium is that it is literally founded amidst the ashes of the old civilization. The necessary technologies have been lost, and likely never to be found again, and even the basis for the space marines, the primarchs, are said to have involved Warp shenanigans, instead of just raw science.
Nor does the advancement of science "discover" aliens, or anything else that is already existing. Atoms, for example, didn't just pop into existence the moment someone made a microscope powerful enough to observe them. Likewise, making interstellar craft isn't going to cause aliens to pop up all over the place.
Personally, I've never had a problem with female marines, but in order to work within the setting at large, they'd have to be pretty clandestine.

[Stalker21]

You could work it into the fluff as being a lost Chapter, marooned on some Deathworld or whatnot for a few centuries. On said planet was the STC, but with no way to communicate with the rest of the Imperium, the Chapter's techmarines commandeered it. Losing numbers due to attrition, the chapter was forced to recruit the native human population, including the females. Through trial and error with the newly-discovered STC, BAM! Female Marines.

[Arlins]

I see no issue with it, so long as the models are well-done, and there's a logical reason behind it.
I've seen some that were in the 'OMGBEWBS!!11' vein, and that just struck me as immature. I've also seen some beautifully done models.

Here's a question; do they -have- to be space marines?
Why not a long-lost splinter faction of the Imperium that actually has access to higher technologies like cloning and genetic manipulation? In a situation like that, gender would be a relative non issue, and things would be on relatively equal ground.
Plus, you could do some stuff with the models that would definitely make them stand out.

Honestly, that's one of the few 40K involved projects I could see myself doing.

Actally the Emperor used genetically modified soldiers in the unification wars , space marines came later so your onto something there

[Fny]

Interesting article, yeah. And I'm not actually sure where I stand in the question of female space marines... I'm more annoyed by the lac of females in the imperial guard! Yeah, they're supposed to exist, but how often do you actually see them?! Or hear about them?! Every now and them you come across them in the literature but they're not treated as a general part of the army. Which I feel is just stupid.