New to deamons and want revenge for my first game !! 2000p

[smoelfDK]

well fist off id like to say I am new to this forum (and Danish so plz excuse my spelling)

well I am resent to daemons (not 40k) and after a big but not that great tournament giant fanatic 14 in KBH (37/48 playing IG) i saw a great and i do mean great daemons player (won 1st plaze in painting ill post a picture if you want?) i got into daemons after that

well my first match was mad of what models i had on hand and fought would be fun to play

well after that ive browsed this forum and read the tactics from Pyrosikth

and thou i don't know what army im facing next (rather large friend base in 40k)

here is my next list and id like some feedback (il post list of what i have in daemons in bottom)

HQ
keeper of secrets = 225 ( pavane of slaanesh)
Herald of tzeentch = 110 (chariot, we are legion, bolt of tzeentch, master of sorcery)

Elite
3 bloodcrushers = 135 (fury and instrument)

Troops
4units of 5 pink horros (bolt of tzeentch) 4x95p = 380
14 bloodletters = 224
8 plaugebearers = 120

Fast
10 Seekers of slaanesh = 170

Heavy
Soul grinder = 160 (phlegm)
Daemon prince = 215 (Flight, iron hide, mark of nurgle, cloude of flies, Noxious touch)
Daemon Prince = 260 (Flight, iron hide, Mark of Tzeentch, bolt of tzeentch, breath of chaos)

Total = 1999


What i have

HQ = 1 keeper of secrets 1 Lord of change 1 herald of tzeentze

Elite = 3 Bloodcrushers (oh and my 1 paperweight beast of nurgle)

icon and instrument for all troops (1 of each for each god)
Troops= 30 pink horrors, 40 plague bearers, 20 bloodletters, 20 daemonetts, 3 nurglings

fast= 11 screamers of tzeentch, 10 seekers of slaanesh

Heavy= 1 soulgrinder 2 daemon princes (both whit wings)

[PyroSikTh]

It looks like a good enough list. I'd be tempted to drop the Keeper of Secrets in favour of another unit of Plaguebearers and...something else, not really sure what. You could possibly drop a couple of Bloodletters to have a third unit of Horrors? It looks fine without that change though.

[edmundblack]

With Daemons, it's all about Deep Striking. Many people do it badly and wonder why their units get decimated in the shooting phase. Make use of cover, be bold with it and work out exactly which half is your preffered half - ideally, you want two good armies which add up to your total army. So for this, two sets of equally good 1000 point armies, so that way if you get the "wrong" half, they can still do OK.

[smoelfDK]

ive edited the list
but in thinking of converting a second herald of tzeentch on chariot, thou i simpley dont have extra chariot model to convert atm

perhaps 3 lager units of horrors and 1 extra plauge bearer instead of keeper ?

[PyroSikTh]

No, you definitely want a second unit of Plaguebearers. They're your objective holders, and holding 2 objectives is better than 1. 1 can easily be contested, 2 is a challenge, 3 is nigh impossible.

Also larger units of Horrors are wasted points. You want as many units to make use of Bolt of Tzeentch, so you want them minimum size. 7 die just as quickly as 5.

[jmg202]

i recommend flamers flamers flamers lol i experimented with all the elites, and what i found to work best for me was 3 units of three flamers.

the suicide flamers squads were incredibly easy to deepstrike really close to enemies and flame them as they drop. but to each is own. although the keeper is really cool and a monster in combat, getting him there is the hard part most of the time. my favorite setup i ran was 2 tzeentch herlads charriots with 2 slannesh heralds but again im sure some would disagree with me it really is what ever you want to play with. everything in the daemon list has a place, some just are more used and verstile then others. enjoy

[PyroSikTh]

Problem with Flamers is their unreliability (which is saying something for Daemons). When they work, they absolutely decimate, but when they don't they're a complete waste of points. If they deep strike into a good position to lay down 3 templates covering 3 or 4 members of a unit each, brilliant. However I find that 4 out of 5 times, they scatter out of range, or all the opponent's units are in transports, or more frustratingly they've landed in a position where they can only get 1 or 2 members of the unit each.

[jmg202]

Problem with Flamers is their unreliability (which is saying something for Daemons). When they work, they absolutely decimate, but when they don't they're a complete waste of points. If they deep strike into a good position to lay down 3 templates covering 3 or 4 members of a unit each, brilliant. However I find that 4 out of 5 times, they scatter out of range, or all the opponent's units are in transports, or more frustratingly they've landed in a position where they can only get 1 or 2 members of the unit each.

completly agree, though i do admit i tend to have good luck with them deep striking. the entire army of daemons is unreliable to a point which has been stated. My philosiphy with daemons is they are random so why not just go with it. i used fiends a few times and they were great but i face alot of IG and armor heavy blood angels, so i found the flamers to be more versitile in that i could glance vehicles long enough to get by big stuff close enough to open them up, or right behind a line and go for that game changing turn one. no guts no glory for me, always made for a fun and entertaining game even if they mishapped. lol its all in how you want to play em lol. Also it is always fun to combine flamers with pavane of slannesh. my orc friend hates when i make his horde conga line up to my flamers, heralds and daemon princes :-D

[wingma200]

You definitely need more plague bearers. A squad of Daemonettes or seekers wont hurt either (high initiative, high attacks, rending). Also, Id look into a special character to support your troops (Skarbrand to let daemonettes to re-roll their hits or Fateweaver to let all your troops re-roll saves). I have a high rate of success with my daemons and special characters are mostly the reason why.

[Salag]

The trouble is, most of the special characters in the Daemon Codex are pretty darned expensive so it's hard to fit them into a list that you're already running.

Also Fateweaver doesn't let you reroll ALL armour saves, only invunerable saves and only if you're within range and he's one of the most expensive models in the game and I don't think that he's all that worth it, despite the massive list of abilities/spells that he gets.

[wingma200]

Like I dont play 40k or something.. haha ..you probably never played him.. armour save, cover or inv, player chioce.. I didn't mean all three at once. 6 inches is a decent distance if you have him between squads or sitting on an objective with a bunch of plaguebearers. Also, he only needs to reach one model in the squad to give the entire squad the gift. Plus his 3+ inv can be re rolled. I rarely loose him. All of you people go crazy over point costs like you can only run the cheapest models to have an effective army. I have played daemons since the codex has come out and have a lot of success. Also, you should diversify and adjust your list for the type of game, tournament or mission you are playing

[wingma200]

Just the sheere presence of Skarbrand or Fateweaver alone will have to make the opponent re-strategize and concentrate more effort and firepower on that model...leaving...guess what?? your cheep troop models to take less fire!! What a concept! ..Not saying special characters are flawless or you should play them every game. Im just saying, dont be so quick to throw them under the bus

[PyroSikTh]

Also, you should diversify and adjust your list for the type of game, tournament or mission you are playing

That's called List Tailoring and is generally frowned upon.

Just the sheere presence of Skarbrand or Fateweaver alone will have to make the opponent re-strategize and concentrate more effort and firepower on that model...leaving...guess what?? your cheep troop models to take less fire!! What a concept! ..Not saying special characters are flawless or you should play them every game. Im just saying, dont be so quick to throw them under the bus

Moot point seeing as the rest of your army is smaller in the first place because of the points spent on the Special Character. A clever player will just ignore them and focus on the cheaper troop models (of which you now have less of). In Objective based games, no matter what army I'm using, against whatever army, the first things I aim for are the troops and the transports they're in.

[Salag]

All of you people go crazy over point costs like you can only run the cheapest models to have an effective army. I have played daemons since the codex has come out and have a lot of success.

A well you probably are more experienced in Daemons than me then. I am always wary of models that cost a lot of points though as, unless properly protected, losing them can lose you the game. I know, I frequently run The Nightbringer in my Necron list But for a beginner it is easier to get used to the troops and general units if you have a bit more of them to start with and then you can get a feel for what you think that your list needs.

Also, you should diversify and adjust your list for the type of game, tournament or mission you are playing

Hmm, if you've been playing for that long you should know that you should only have one list that is used for any army, mission, tournament that you entry/gets thrown your way. The applies ESPECIALLY for a newer player.

You're right though, the fact that you play a large and powerful creature does make your opponent re-think his strategy. The OP just has to weigh this up when looking at making his list and ensuring that it will still be effective without your centerpiece fire magnet.

[wingma200]

That's called List Tailoring and is generally frowned upon.

lol .. Im not talking about changing my entire army up every time I play. I have a few interchangeable units i run with. Letting the enemy know exactly what your playing every time is not good strategy. If he is really that good, he wont cry about you changing a few things up and still beat you.

A clever player will just ignore them and focus on the cheaper troop models

And an even more clever player will adjust to this. Its not all about running all troops. Ive played daemons for years, Ive been fine guys.

Thanks for the great debate gents!

[PyroSikTh]

And an even more clever player will adjust to this. Its not all about running all troops. Ive played daemons for years, Ive been fine guys.

But that's the thing. You've been playing Daemons for years (I'm not exactly a noob myself, having played since release day), so while it works for you, chances are it won't work for someone new to the army.

[Slaanesh]

Plaguebearers are a great choice for holding objectives thats for sure, Fateweaver can be a curve ball for some people, I mean when he is by a couple of squads of plaguebearers those guys become even harder to get rid of. Bloodletters are good, but i prefer daemonettes, they move faster, will attack first against most stuff in 40k and have assault and defence grenades. I will say that to say this, Bloodletters with Hellblades carging into a squad of space marines, is very nice, unless you are the space marines Ha Ha.

[wingma200]

I understand now Pyro.. sometimes us vets of the game dont think simplisticly for the beginners when explaining things.