Empyrean Brain Mines

[Angelofblades]

Delving deeper into the mysteries of the Grey Knight codex, I find this little gem.

Especially with the rise of the Necron players and their...mindshackle scarabs, I feel that it would be kind of funny to turn the tables on them.

But as I read the rules for EBM's it occurs to me that this item can be used not only in the first round of combat, but in subsequent rounds (of the same combat) as well.

This can effectively stun lock important models in combat.

Thoughts?

[jettzypher]

possibly. but the chances of your opponent failing a initiative test for something important can be pretty low. im not very familiar with all the armies, but the units that are commonly played where im at are usually I4 and up. and im unaware of any way to increase those odds. the only way i know to reduce initiative with grey knights is psyk-out grenades and those only work on units with a psyker or daemon and only during the turn when you initially assault with them.

[edmundblack]

I would say no, because: "after assault moves are made but before any blows have been struck" implies that it's in the first turn only of the assault phase, but can happen in your opponent's assault phase if you're assaulted.

I can see where you're coming from AoB, but I think it's stretching the description extremely thin - it's a tenuous interpretation at best.

[Ork Marine]

So, they basically work on anything with an initiative value?

[edmundblack]

Yes, but not Walkers.

[Angelofblades]

Yes, but not Walkers.

I will have to disagree on that brother.

Nothing in the codex or FAQ to support this, just checked

[edmundblack]

Weren't they the ones that did, then didn't work Vs Dreadnoughts?

[Angelofblades]

Weren't they the ones that did, then didn't work Vs Dreadnoughts?

Well Rad Grenades for obvious reasons, but it was psychostroke grenades that don't work vs all vehicles. Again, reason being that people were using psychostroke grenades to get re-rolls to hit and auto hit on non-WS vehicles

[Angelofblades]

I would say no, because: "after assault moves are made but before any blows have been struck" implies that it's in the first turn only of the assault phase, but can happen in your opponent's assault phase if you're assaulted.

I can see where you're coming from AoB, but I think it's stretching the description extremely thin - it's a tenuous interpretation at best.

Ok so slight ressurrection of OT.

Initialy I was inclined to agree with you 100% EB, until I I delved a little deeper and read into the Purifiers Cleansing Flame psychic powers, where the wording is exactly the same, but cleansing flame is allowed to be cast past the 1st turn of combat. Because of that, either people are playing cleansing flame wrong, or Empyrean Brain mines are actually awesome now, that they are every turn of combat

[edmundblack]

How would you play Mindshackle Scarabs then? I can see where you're coming from, and really there's nothing to state that it only happens when initiating or receiving an assault. But I think it's a bit cheeky to say the least. However, if it can work all the time, then sign me up for some.

[Angelofblades]

Arent MSS the same as well? Wernt they every turn iirc, I don't have the Necron's codex in with, though I do have the GK codex with me. The difference is that with MSS it's a random model in btb with the bearer, however the bearer of EBM's can pick his target, which I think makes EBM's better than MSS's.

Also EBM's work great against Necrons, teehee.

[edmundblack]

Indeed they do. And yes, their method of use is the same, so if Mindshackles work every turn, so do Brain Mines. Now then, here's one - is it at all possible to land a Brain Mine on a target that has Mindshackles so that it cannot even use the Mindshackles?

[Angelofblades]

Lol, you sure you don't like to play competitively?

Maybe I'm just rubbing off on you.

But I'd have to say no in that instance, thing is they are used simultaneously, aslo you'd have to have that model be in btb contact, a tricky feat none the less, but EBM only work on enemy models, since they go off at the same time, that model wouldn't be an enemy at that point in time. But stopping necrons from getting their 2+ kills from wascythes is still glorious.

[edmundblack]

Lol, you sure you don't like to play competitively?

To be honest, I find such things to be a bit of a "cheap shot". You can't do anything actively against it, and "remove from play" weapons ruin the point for me. Hell, I feel guilty using Warp Rift ffs, or even managing to nuke a Trygon Prime in one shot! But at least they can both be "shut down" from happening in many cases and by many armies.

Maybe I'm just rubbing off on you.

Kinky.

Yeah, same here. Still, worth a try. Mindshackles, like Psychotrokes are, to me, a cheap shot. There's zero finesse to them: get into CC, do stuff. The Labyrinth is the worst though, I can see it's use and value, but it's a horrible piece of kit. Melta Guns can miss, invulnerable saves can be made or fail, but these sort of things ... no stopping them. But then, as pretty much every Necron player under the sun will be taking such things, I reckon some Warp Rift love beforehand will help level the field somewhat. I test on I2? Lulz. (Tervigons have it worst though)