Rhinos or Razorbacks?

[Callaghan41]

Most competitive lists I've seen use razorbacks, not rhinos, when psicannons are pretty much better than razorback weaponry. I'm wondering: Why razorbacks instead of rhinos ?

[jettzypher]

twin-linked heavy bolters with psybolt ammo > storm bolter

[SonsOfStalingrad]

It's psychology. If you have an anti-tank weapon, people aim for it first - A lascannon razorback doesnt last too long because heavy weapon + low armour = death.
The heavy bolters often get overlooked as they're infantry guns. This means when they're done dropping their guys off, the razorback becomes a decent fire support unit. A rhino, by comparison, just drives around trying to get in the way.

[edmundblack]

Which a Razorback can do once the weapon has been shot off. They're also harder to kill than Land Raiders for some reason, going by experience.

[wookieplus]

@edmundblack Tell your troops to use proper batteries in their lascannon, not just cheap A*da AA's

It does depend on your combat style. If you like the 'charge forward full pelt, unload your guys then the tanks act as firepower support' then Rz are the way to go. That 5-point investment gets you a significantly tougher weapon. If you prefer advancing at 6" with guys firing out the top hatch (which could be 2 psycannon) and staying in your vehicles until they are destroyed, then Rhinos should def be your choice. In fact I'd even consider putting a second SB or a missile on the top, because this actually marginally increases survivability - you are not immobilised by 2 weapon destroyed results, and can potentially provide more fire support (both SBs can fire if moving 6" unless you've psybolted).

Incidentally, Rhinos can be used to ram other vehicles (they are after all 'tanks'), act as mobile cover, perform tank shocks and contest objectives when they are weaponless.

[Callaghan41]

Say all but my 2 dreads and crowe were in razorbacks. It's hard to over look 5 razorbacks in 1500 points. Would the choice still be heavy bolters, not lascannons?

[wookieplus]

with GK you get the option of psybolt - so S6 AP4 HBs, plus you get some added protection of psychic pilot. For the points, this is just an awesome vehicle, and the majority of your vehicles should use this, if not all of them. The 5 points for the psybolt is well worth the investment.

Of the various upgrade options;
TL Assault cannon with psybolt ups you to S7 AP4 with rending and an extra attack, but with shortened range. This makes them pretty good light-tank killers (think of it as 2 short range twinlinked autocannon, with rending). however, is it worth the additional cost? For a normal SM army, it may well be. For GK I think probably not - for 30 points you could kit out 3 Rz with MLs - this gives you a good boost to your tank-killing capability, and also gives you an extra weapon to be destroyed.

TL lascannon option for most armies is not a brilliant option, as there are usually better ways of getting LC. However, this is one of very few ways of getting lascannon in a GK army list so is well worth considering for one or perhaps two of your units. (although it is worth considering a rhino or chimera with 2+ jokaero in it as your baseline troop choice - a bit more expensive but it then includes your baseline objective cover unit as well). if you have psyfleman dreads, a baseline Rz is likely to attract their longrange antitank fire first.

LC+ TL Plasma gun is my favourite, and if you are considering any upgrades I'd recommend considering one of these for your assaults - basically when you are close to your opponents you get 2x twinlink S7 AP2 shots from the PG (and ignore Get hot) - great for taking out heavy infantry. And for longer range there is the LC. If you get a WD against you, then one of these weapons survives.

[Callaghan41]

If I have 5 un-upgraded razorbacks and 85 points to use, what would you suggest?
Each one would be filled with 5 purifiers with 2 psicannons. (heavy support of 2 autocannon dreads)

[jettzypher]

psybolt ammo for the razorbacks (and dreadnaughts if they dont have it already). note though, that purifiers would work better with incinerators. theyre free and are still assault weapons so you dont lose shots. purifiers should never be sitting in one spot too far from the enemy.

[MC Tic Tac]

When mass razorbacks are used with 12 point troop choices (acolytes with Cotez) then its a case of weight of numbers.

As Marines are so popular (any type) then having 3 shots a turn that can wound them on a 2+, or most monstrous creatures on a 4+ or a (very rough) 50% chance to stun lock armour 12 ie Leafblower IG then you're on to a winner.