Toughest opponent?

[scorcher5]

Ok guys, as you all know ever since the necrons were updated they have become a lot more competitive. (maybe even one of the top caliber armies in 40k) My question is, which army do you guys think can give the necrons a run for their money. I know GK and BA are always a good competitor, but I've seen quite a few 'cron players beat the two armies. Any thoughts?

[PyroSikTh]

Honestly I'd say Necrons worst enemy are themselves. They have all the best tools to take apart themselves.

[edmundblack]

That's always been the irony of the game though - GKs are the same, Dark Eldar, Guard: each of them are best at taking themselves on.

I reckon, as Necrons are still quite an elite army, that a pure horde would give them problems.

[PyroSikTh]

That's always been the irony of the game though - GKs are the same, Dark Eldar, Guard: each of them are best at taking themselves on.

Dark Eldar are actually fairly bad at taking on themselves. AV10-11 quashes the advantage of Lance, and poison is as effective against T3 as it is against T7, so that's that advantage mitigated too. Guard can field loads of heavy weapons, but to do that they usually have to field loads of units, which mitigates that advantage. I still don't know GK that well, but I'm not aware of them having counters to their own tricks.

Necrons on the other hand; AV13? Gauss and Entropic Strike. T5? Tesla is usually S5+. Solar Pulse? Solar Pulse.

[edmundblack]

Yes, but it's still str8. Advantage or not, it's a mobile missle with AP2 coming from a billion angles. It's still great against everything, and is by no means "wasted" vs AV10,11 & 12. Ever. Evereverevereverever. Just because it makes a mockery of AV13 & 14 doesn't mean that that is all it should be used against.

GKs have anti-psyker kit as standard. Every GK is a psyker, every unit is a psyker. He who assaults, wins.

[Strassa]

i hear DE are really hard for necrons to over come poisen takes care of T5 baddies and Lances laugh and monolith and the other stuff

[scorcher5]

GKs have anti-psyker kit as standard. Every GK is a psyker, every unit is a psyker. He who assaults, wins.

Don't forget about mind shackle scarabs! I saw a squad of 'crons (and lord, of course) get assaulted by a 5-man GK terminator squad w/ Castellan Crowe attached and managed to kill four of the 5 and terminators as well as Crowe.

[Aeviaan]

I actually totally agree with the Necrons being their own worst enemy, even moreso then most other armies.

[Cryage]

Don't forget about mind shackle scarabs! I saw a squad of 'crons (and lord, of course) get assaulted by a 5-man GK terminator squad w/ Castellan Crowe attached and managed to kill four of the 5 and terminators as well as Crowe.

Crowe cant join units.... Also mindshackle only does 1d3 wounds... but I assume youre including the swings from the necron units

[Badarmies2]

Honestly I'd say Necrons worst enemy are themselves. They have all the best tools to take apart themselves.

+1, I have also had trouble with horde orks and nids, doesn't matter how many barges you have when they are only killing 6 points a wound, then adding cover to the equation, and it makes things like mindshackle scarabs not a big deal when you are fighting 30 boys and the nob goes warrior hunting and a boy takes the scarabs.

Mindshakle is great, really punishes elite units and armies which is why they do so well against the current meta of elites.

[Shining Finger]

As a nids user I have yet to play against Necrons, but I would hate going against monoliths, Doomsday Arks, (and Doom Scythes, which is the answer to horde armies)

Av13 is a pain for nids to breach, 14 even more so.

[wookieplus]

I think that the Necrons are a 'balanced' codex rather than a particularly strong one. Good armies for fighting Necron are those that can deploy good numbers of strong AT (to take on those AV13 vehicles) and plenty of AP4, S6 blast for the scarabs, mecha (necs dont have a huge number of AT weapons, although they have a lot of stuff that can glance), and assault forces - Necron dont generally get on well in CC.



Sooooo....

Dark Eldar:
lance weaponry usually takes the tanks down fast, they all have nightvision (darkness is one of Necrons weapons) and they have good CC. However, I've tried Necron against DE and against my expectations the Necs actually came out on top).

IG:
usually has the firepower to take down the Necron vehicles early, and mass shooty. I figure IG can outshoot Necs (although I'd be interested in seeing some posts on the subject), and even the standard trooper squads represent a some chance in CC (if they dont just get shot down.... fearsome amount of AP5 in Necs, so troopers need to be in cover or vehicles for survivability) as they have higher Init. Mechanised forces with chimera/vendettas should do really well; Chimeras have heavy bolters (the HB turret option is best here), vendettas are ideal for taking out the Nec vehicles - and fast so can avoid scarabs. Hydras are great andi-trooper units (until they get scarabed of course!)

SM variants. Marines will generally own Necrons in CC, and Necs dont field that much AP3. BA, GK and SW all have strong CC forces that can beat equivalent point value Nec units, plus ability to field sufficient LC/melta to take down the tanks.

Nids: Necs havent got that much to deal with multiple MCs - trygons, mawlocs, Tervigons are good. Hive guard have AP4 and are common units. Zoes have the opportunity of penetrating the tanks on a 4+. genestealers uparmoured to 4+ will take out both tanks and infantry whilst still getting armour saves.

[Dragonknights]

I think that the Necrons are a 'balanced' codex rather than a particularly strong one. Good armies for fighting Necron are those that can deploy good numbers of strong AT (to take on those AV13 vehicles) and plenty of AP4, S6 blast for the scarabs, mecha (necs dont have a huge number of AT weapons, although they have a lot of stuff that can glance), and assault forces - Necron dont generally get on well in CC.



Sooooo....

Dark Eldar:
lance weaponry usually takes the tanks down fast, they all have nightvision (darkness is one of Necrons weapons) and they have good CC. However, I've tried Necron against DE and against my expectations the Necs actually came out on top).

IG:
usually has the firepower to take down the Necron vehicles early, and mass shooty. I figure IG can outshoot Necs (although I'd be interested in seeing some posts on the subject), and even the standard trooper squads represent a some chance in CC (if they dont just get shot down.... fearsome amount of AP5 in Necs, so troopers need to be in cover or vehicles for survivability) as they have higher Init. Mechanised forces with chimera/vendettas should do really well; Chimeras have heavy bolters (the HB turret option is best here), vendettas are ideal for taking out the Nec vehicles - and fast so can avoid scarabs. Hydras are great andi-trooper units (until they get scarabed of course!)

SM variants. Marines will generally own Necrons in CC, and Necs dont field that much AP3. BA, GK and SW all have strong CC forces that can beat equivalent point value Nec units, plus ability to field sufficient LC/melta to take down the tanks.

Nids: Necs havent got that much to deal with multiple MCs - trygons, mawlocs, Tervigons are good. Hive guard have AP4 and are common units. Zoes have the opportunity of penetrating the tanks on a 4+. genestealers uparmoured to 4+ will take out both tanks and infantry whilst still getting armour saves.

Well the main reasons that Dark Eldar have trouble with Necrons is that DE is an army that strikes fast and kills but can't take a punch in return. Necron on the other hand are the opposite takes a lot and stands up. DE players have trouble to get their power of pain working against Necrons. As for the vehicles same story though Dark Eldar will easily destroy Necron vehicles, Necrons do the same against Dark Eldar on that they are evenly matched. Those Tesla weapons are a real bane to DE vehicles.

However DE can solve their problem with a unit which so far I have seen few DE playing namely the Parasite Pain Engine. This is mainly because in past against any army DE could blast and then kill it in the following assault phase and then get that much needed kill point for their CC wych unit to get feel no pain so the pain Engine wasn't needed. This is sadly does rarely work against Necrons. But the Parasite Engine only needs to kill one model instead of an entire unit. I will predict once Tournament DE players realize this you will see a lot more lists that will include the Parasite Pain Engine.

[edmundblack]

Don't forget about mind shackle scarabs! I saw a squad of 'crons (and lord, of course) get assaulted by a 5-man GK terminator squad w/ Castellan Crowe attached and managed to kill four of the 5 and terminators as well as Crowe.

Well, if you want to resort to cheap tricks, go right ahead. (this coming from a player who could use Psychotroke Grenades but refuses to)

And you can't attach Crowe ever to any unit whatsoever as he's not an IC. So if he got affected, he'd be hitting himself (and that's still questionable).

[Angelofblades]

Well, if you want to resort to cheap tricks, go right ahead. (this coming from a player who could use Psychotroke Grenades but refuses to)

And you can't attach Crowe ever to any unit whatsoever as he's not an IC. So if he got affected, he'd be hitting himself (and that's still questionable).

I fear that scirchers quote is incorrect. MS can only max at 3 wounds and can only affect a single model, ie like empyrrean brain mines, but its random btb model.. And as we all knows, Crowe can't join squads.

[edmundblack]

Unless it was 3 wounds and then the rest of the necrons polish off the GKs. Which is possible, considering how nasty their CC units can be.

[Badarmies2]

My Destoryer Lord and Six Wraiths were assault yesterday by 2 Trigon primes. They won all three rounds of combat and when all was said and done the D-lord was at 1 wound left and there were 4 wraiths left. Mindshakle scarabs only worked once out of the 3 rounds of combat. Whoever says necrons suck at CC simply haven't looked deep enough in the codex. They have several options to deal with elite CC. Horde CC not as easy when there is alot of cover on the table or they horde cc is beasts, thats a real bitch for a rapid fire army.

[scorcher5]

I fear that scirchers quote is incorrect. MS can only max at 3 wounds and can only affect a single model, ie like empyrrean brain mines, but its random btb model.. And as we all knows, Crowe can't join squads.

Sorry about that. I meant to say that the necron squad took out the 4 GK first, and then later on they assaulted and took out crowe. Also, I meant to say that the MS HELPED take the knights out, Not all by itself.

[scorcher5]

Well, if you want to resort to cheap tricks, go right ahead. (this coming from a player who could use Psychotroke Grenades but refuses to)

And you can't attach Crowe ever to any unit whatsoever as he's not an IC. So if he got affected, he'd be hitting himself (and that's still questionable).

Now just wait a minute. You did NOT just frickin' say necrons are cheap 'cause GK are just about as cheesy as it gets in 40k. I may not know much about GK, but I know for SURE they are one of the cheapest armies in 40k.

[Aeviaan]

IMHO, the difference between MS Scarabs and Psychotrope grenades is that Grey Knights have a damn good shot at winning close combat anyway, and that just throws it over the top. MS Scarabs require good positioning, a failed ld. test, and good rolling, to help the necrons maybe tie CC or lose it by less, so that they don't get instantly run down.