Hammers or No Hammers

[Callaghan41]

Against a kan wall orks army, would you suggest hammers in 5-6 man purifier squads? I can rarely roll higher than a 1 for armor pen with dreads and TL Heavy Bolters (and he always gets outrageous results on his 4+ KFF ), so having something to clean up the scraps would be useful.

[Angelofblades]

Well, if you were doing it right, you wouldn't even get to Thunderhammers I1 to take out kans in CC.

Halberds or swords wound be enough ti rip up kans in cc.

[edmundblack]

A hammer in a 5/6 man unit will rarely get to swing anyway unless it's Terminators. Two in 10 would be OK perhaps, but no more than that.

[Callaghan41]

It took me 3 turns with 5 normal purifiers to wreck one kan.

Also, why would the hammer not swing? I could allocate the wounds to other models.

[Angelofblades]

It's called Might of Titan. That's how you do it correctly.

Look into it.

I wrecked a Land Raider with a nemesis force sword.

[Bodopo]

Hammers will work, but as EB said they may be too late at I1. I would suggest you do your utmost not to get into assault in the 1st place (maybe easier said than done), psycannons and Psyfleman will rip apart kans. GK are a shooty army, although they have some units that are quite good in assault thats not where they belong.

[edmundblack]

Also, why would the hammer not swing? I could allocate the wounds to other models.

Good luck when you take 10/11/12 hits at I2+. As everyone takes one or two, it could still get gibbed. And vs other more dedicated CC units, it'll likely be long dead.

[Callaghan41]

psycannons and Psyfleman will rip apart kans

7 Turns=6 Casualties

[Angelofblades]

Yeah, so pro tip.

A major part of this game, is about matching up the right units to fight the wrong ones. As you are finding out, Kans Vs 5-6 man Purifier squads = dead purifier squads. Cleansing Flame won't help you and Hammerhand barely will.

So what to do?

You either have to mismatch back or show that your opponent's attempt to mismatch was wrong. Obviously shooting isn't working for you. If you are taking Purifiers, are you taking Crowe as your HQ? What's your second HQ?

It didn't seem like you understood my post, when I said "Might of Titan."

Did you understand what that meant?

[edmundblack]

You mean ... there's an option to take a Librarian without Might of Titan? Nope, doesn't register to me. Every Libby needs to take it, and every GK force needs a Libby. You can get away with a Champion at 1000 or less perhaps, but ideally at least one Librarian.

[Callaghan41]

Yeah, so pro tip.

A major part of this game, is about matching up the right units to fight the wrong ones. As you are finding out, Kans Vs 5-6 man Purifier squads = dead purifier squads. Cleansing Flame won't help you and Hammerhand barely will.

So what to do?

You either have to mismatch back or show that your opponent's attempt to mismatch was wrong. Obviously shooting isn't working for you. If you are taking Purifiers, are you taking Crowe as your HQ? What's your second HQ?

It didn't seem like you understood my post, when I said "Might of Titan."

Did you understand what that meant?

I do understand what Might of Titan is, but

1. I don't have the points to spare for a librarian
2. If he wants to support the purifiers, he has to go in a razorback
3. He can only help one squad


Would it make sense to, turn one, drop EVERYTHING (10 psicannons total)from the transports, fire with 2 dreads (8 shots), all of the psicannons (40 Shots), and 5 TL heavy bolters (15 shots) into the wall and risk the shots in return? (6-7 Big shootas and kan weaponry)

[Angelofblades]

I do understand what Might of Titan is, but

1. I don't have the points to spare for a librarian
2. If he wants to support the purifiers, he has to go in a razorback
3. He can only help one squad


Would it make sense to, turn one, drop EVERYTHING (10 psicannons total)from the transports, fire with 2 dreads (8 shots), all of the psicannons (40 Shots), and 5 TL heavy bolters (15 shots) into the wall and risk the shots in return? (6-7 Big shootas and kan weaponry)

1. What's in your list?
2. He cannot go in a razorback, because he's in terminator armor
3. One squad is all that matters

4. If you are playing against orks. Why are you moving? They are already coming to you. You have the advantage of range and number of shots. So why would you be moving to the orks? Also the orks will charge your front line. If they've come up from behind you, (snikrott) then you don't need Migh of Titan for that. Additionally, Might of Titan can be cast on a freindly unit within range iirc. You should also have Sanctuary in addition to Might of Titan.

[Callaghan41]

1. What's in your list?

HQ:
Castellan Crowe-150

Troops:

6 Man Purifier Squad (2 Psicannons) in Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and Psibolt Ammo-214
6 Man Purifier Squad (2 Psicannons) in Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and Psibolt Ammo-214
6 Man Purifier Squad (2 Psicannons) in Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and Psibolt Ammo-214
6 Man Purifier Squad (2 Psicannons) in Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and Psibolt Ammo-214
6 Man Purifier Squad (2 Psicannons) in Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and Psibolt Ammo-214
Heavy Support:

Dreadnought with 2 TL Autocannons and Psibolt Ammo-135
Dreadnought with 2 TL Autocannons and Psibolt Ammo-135

10 Leftover Points

2. He cannot go in a razorback, because he's in terminator armor

That is what I was saying. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

3. One squad is all that matters

But what if he still has 3 units of kans? I can't kill them all in one charge (after the first charge, they will beheaded by boyz).

4. If you are playing against orks. Why are you moving? They are already coming to you. You have the advantage of range and number of shots. So why would you be moving to the orks? Also the orks will charge your front line. If they've come up from behind you, (snikrott) then you don't need Migh of Titan for that. Additionally, Might of Titan can be cast on a freindly unit within range iirc. You should also have Sanctuary in addition to Might of Titan.

I wouldn't be moving up. My purifiers would be just in psicannon range, disembark, fire, and then move back in the next turn. He could however shoot me with a few weapons though.

[Angelofblades]

Drop a squad, take up the libby, and beef up one squad that will remain on foot with the libby.

Take a libby with 3 powers, sanctuary, might of titan and shrouding. Keep the squad with/ around the dreads so you have a constant cover save with stealth. Keep the rest of the squads around you, build a fort out of it, sit back, relax and wait for the orks to come into range. that's about it really. If the Kans make it, then might of Titan the squad thats going to get charge/ charges them and move on. If you are about to get charged, pop sanctuary and watch the fire works.

[Callaghan41]

Do you think the unit could survive multiple turns of 6(2 shots each) strength 5 large blast grotzookas (and big shootas and kustom mega blastas)?

[Angelofblades]

Grotzookas are 24" range IIRC... your guns are 24" range. Grotzookas rely on blast templates, meaning they will scatter. I dont' recall if they are AP3, but if they are, you should have a 3+ cover save.

Ontop of which, you should have 3 turns of psyfleman dread shooting before they get to you.

[Callaghan41]

Ontop of which, you should have 3 turns of psyfleman dread shooting before they get to you.

This goes back to the main point of the thread-That doesn't seem to work. Also, how do you figure 3 rounds? If I deploy as far back as I can, he can get within 24 inches by running quickly. They might be 18" though....

[Angelofblades]

In a pitched battle scenario, there should be at least 24" between you two. Run rolls are random, and unless your opponent is using Ghaz, they aren't always going to get the 6" Waaagh! run. They really shouldn't really reach your lines until turn 3, turn 2 the earliest, only if you moved forwards and they got 6" on the run.

Also I don't see how your psyflemen aren't getting thorugh, KFF only provide a 4+ cover save. So with 4 shots vs AV11, you should get all 4 shots, and at least 2 pens, 1 get's through. With 2-3 turns of shooting, they should only be left with 1 model left in a 3 model unit.

Slightly worse chances with the psycannons, but still not that bad, also you have S6 heavy bolters as well.

Kans are only Av 11 iirc.

[Callaghan41]

However, he has a total of nine kans, he makes on average 5/6 4+ cover, and my dice can't seem to get anything above 2's.

How badly do you think everything (40 psicannon shots, 8 TL autocannon shots, and 15 heavy bolter shots) could cripple the wall, and do you think it would be worth the return fire?

[Angelofblades]

Ok so I've given your kan issue a little more thought. What is crowe doing in all of this? He should be able to hold of a unit of 3 kans by himself easy. He is WS8 and they are WS 3 IIRC. Plus he has shield blades, which allows you to re-roll your 3+ invul save in combat, so they're hitting you on 5's and you get to re-roll your invul saves.

If your opponent is playing his kan correctly, then they form a wall behind the boys. IF this is the case, let the boys charge your purifiers, just make sure your units are close to one another, so they can all benefit from Sanctuary from the libby, after you are charged, cast sanctified flames to thin out the hordes. Keep crowe back until you can charge him solo into a unit of kans, have the libby and his squad charge another unit of kans. IF you've been focusing the psyflemen at kans, you should have at least eliminated 1 unit of kans, leaving 2 left. Let crowe hold of a unit on his own, the libby and purifiers kill a unit, then move to support crowe. The rest of the purifiers deal with everything else.