The viability of a Paladin heavy list

[Mustrum]

Greetings all.


I have been reading the codex relentlessly since I got it, and one thing that is just making me twinge with that, GOD that is so cool and awesome feel are the Paladins. Tough as all holy nails. And I seen that a HQ choice makes them TROOPS. Say instead of the 200 normal point cost of Troop terminators, a set of Paladins would set you back what.. 300 something? Same excellent firepower. Apocatherys albeit expensive just make these guys un-fecking-real. ARE they TOO expensive to field really? Do they in fact suck for their cost and I am being blinded too exposure to SHEER AWESOME!?

And please feel free to say Mustrum your being a tit, just because its there does NOT make it a good idea to do! (My 21st comes to mind!)

Anywho. Any feed back would be most apreciated as I am buying all my stuff either Monday or tuesday!

[Architech]

keep in mind...Feel no pain doesn't work on everything...so if they're not getting their armor save...etc

Also the fewer guys you have, the fewer targets...not saying it isn't an option...but remember the more powerful a unit the more points...therefore potential problems

[Mustrum]

So basically they are good, but not great, and as well as massive terminator armour they may as well have big iron SHOOT ME banners?

[Architech]

I'm just speaking in broad terms of quality versus quanity. GK are meant to be a completely Elite army, if you stick to the actual chapter and not henchmen

As far as the quality of the unit...remember: Even a 2+ armor save is wounded by AP2/1 weapons. Even 2 wound models are killed by double their Toughness weapons (most regular AP2/1 weapons are high S)...and feel no pain doesn't grant a second chance for this. So remember, versus High S, Low AP weapons or power weapons in close combat...you're relying on the invulnerable save...the more dice you have to roll...the more rolls you will fail.

[Mustrum]

I see, and again excuse my ignorance, But is there a lot of said guns floating about the imperium aye?

[gs571]

It is about the gauntlet in your gaming area.

Some army list are heavy on melta or plasma gun.

Just to take the codex so so dutifully read: I have a henchman group that has 3 servitors with 1 Hvy bltr, 1 Plsm canon, 1 MultiMelta, 3 acolyte with 1 flamer (have to handle crowd sometime) and 2 meltagun. now, for the 6 left over, should I take 15 pts assasins (a murder, pun intended) with ws5 and 2 pwr wpns each or Crusaders with its pwr wpn and 3+ inv save or servitor with servo arms (Str 8 pwr wpn, but low init and skill)?

Sure, not every list will be tailored to fight you, and even then, you may be a finer tactician and avoid the wrong match of unit within fighting range. The point made by Architech is that there is no magic bullet. A season of WH40K is much of rock-paper-scissor with tactical skills (and rolls) that make the rock capable to beat the paper. And yes you can always make a list that beat that unit of henchmen, no point to show it to me now, I know that it must exist.

A paladin heavy army may be the winner...until the guys that fought the Tyrannid swarms too often are sick to loose to you and change their Flamer and Hvy Bolter for Melta and Lascanon . That is especially true when they know they fight you in a format were you do not have to register a list at the start of the tournament

Anyway, as long as you have fun, I will be happy(you need opponent to play after all)

GS571

[Architech]

lascannon, meltagun, plasmagun could all present trouble

[jettzypher]

regardless of the things that exist that could kill your dudes off just as easily as any other terminator, the draigo-wing list is still quite formidable in the right hands. 20 paladins and draigo may not be a huge troop count compared to other armies, but they are not to be taken lightly either.

especially if you mix in a good bit of weapons to allow for wound allocation, your guys can weather some serious hurt. ive had a 10-man squad take 3 rounds of shots from three obliterators and only lost a few guys. granted a good portion of that was awesome rolls on my behalf and some shitty ones on my opponents, but spreading it around keeps your guys alive.

[daddy4count]

the problem with them isn't that they aren't awesome... it's that they aren't awesome enough to offset the points cost.

In a fun game it would be great to watch them chew through enemy units in close combat. In a competitive game you may find that they aren't survivable enough to make up for the points.

[Angelofblades]

Paladin heavy army?

It works.

It's called Draigo-wing. Look into it

[jettzypher]

the problem with them isn't that they aren't awesome... it's that they aren't awesome enough to offset the points cost.

In a fun game it would be great to watch them chew through enemy units in close combat. In a competitive game you may find that they aren't survivable enough to make up for the points.

i have to disagree with you. they cost only a couple hundred points more than traditional terminators and have much better survivability. and the draigo-wing list is one of the best ones going around lately.

[Fingers]

Yup. Lots of models to wound allocate. attach a tech priest for grenades. assign lascannon shots to Draigo with a 3+ save and EW. FnP for those pesky 1s you roll when your opponent makes you take 20 lasgun saves.

Debating trying the Draigowing in tournament next month. Two time defending champ with chaos marines though, so im torn between the two.

[gs571]

As previously stated, IMHO it is all in the gauntlet you will have to run.

Id says, Fingers go with with the Draigowing if you think it is the equal to your CSM list. Afterall, it is the other players you beat, their list cannot be better than their mistakes. You may surprise the other players a lot more with Draigo than with your CSM. Who have played against CSM? Nearly everyboody. Who have played against Draigo?

GS571

[Mustrum]

Would they be better or worse for lower point armys?

[Angelofblades]

unfortunately imho, they don't work unless in 1850+ pts games. Smaller pt games and imho ,theyre ismply too expensive

[Fingers]

As previously stated, IMHO it is all in the gauntlet you will have to run.

Id says, Fingers go with with the Draigowing if you think it is the equal to your CSM list. Afterall, it is the other players you beat, their list cannot be better than their mistakes. You may surprise the other players a lot more with Draigo than with your CSM. Who have played against CSM? Nearly everyboody. Who have played against Draigo?

GS571

local game store. 5 random guys Ive met a few times:

player 1- Imperial Guard Player. Not a good player. I beat him 12-1 in annihilation
player 2- Chaos Marines. Decent player. I beat his GK list in finals first year pretty handily.
player 3- Orks. Ive never played Orks. Ive beat the player once (first tourney beat him 2-1 he had GK) and tied him in final last year (he played Daemons).
player 4-Black Templars. Good friend of mine. Weve played several times with us splitting victories. Never seen him play BT. Only faced BT once and crushed the guy.
player 5- undecided army

Ive yet to lose with GK yet, though Ive only played them 3-4 times. Definitely not played any of them with GK just Chaos Marines. Hey AoB, do you have a 2000pt list I can compare with?

[commandojimbob]

I have faced Draigo wing twice now at 2k and I have a draw and a win ! Both games were objective based and that is the problem - Draigo plus 10 Paladins will be 1000pts - leaving 1000pts of other stuff - in both games I just went after the other 1000pts worth of stuff - which was relatively easy to deal with and ignored the Paladins as best as could - having to sacrifice some targets along the way.

And that is the main problem - too few units - however in the right hands it can be brutal because it is ever so difficult to shift if you are not packing lots of S8+ and low AP

[Angelofblades]

Hey AoB, do you have a 2000pt list I can compare with?

Draigo wing list? I have many. I've kept from posting them, only because in my hands their ludicrous. But I can share, just pm me.

[gs571]

Player 1 is likely inconsequential, players #2 and #3 have played GK and #4 have played against you using GK. Paladin list may not surprise #2-4 and 2-3 may even have rejected Draigo after some study of the potential of that list. No surprise attack against them with that list. Everything will boil down to your comfort.

Good luck

GS571