[chaos warriors]-1st khorne list-1500pts

[tducky]

here's my first khorne list. the army is based off of 2 warrior battalions and the dual wielding hero model. would this be a viable start?

Exalted Hero-129
-extra hand weapon, mark of khorne

9 Chosen-201
-extra hand weapon, mark of khorne, musician, standard

10 knights-460
-mark of khorne, musician, standard

15 warriors-288
-mark of khorne, extra hand weapon, musician, standard

40 mauraders-262
-flails, light armour, mark of khorne, musician, standard

10 war hounds-70
-scaley skin

10 war hounds-70
-scaley skin

total-1500 pts

[BrokenWing]

I play a bit of an unusual Chaos army myself (it's doing very well) but I have a few questions about yours.
1st. No spell caster? I don't actually believe a spellcaster is completely essential to winning in 8th edition, as long as you bring some anti-magic or are really good at using your dispel dice only at critical moments and on the most important spells.

2nd. Your hero is nice...but he doesn't have any magic items? I'd advise at least giving him a weapon or some armor, otherwise he's not really worth paying the 110+ points for. If you want to go the cheap hero route, it might be better to grab a level 2 spellcaster (cheaper).

3rd. I am not a firm believer in taking units that belong in close combat at anything less than 15 guys. I think Chosen are awesome, but only 9 won't last long when it comes to being shot at. They die from shooting just as easily as warriors without banner support and 9 guys will drop quickly.

4th. Never been a fan of warhounds at all, to be perfectly honest. If you plan on using them, I'd say drop scaly skin, because most weapons are going to ignore that save anyway.

[Strassa]

1st drop warhounds. dont listen to the above about taking more chosen anything more than 10 is a waste of points and put them in horde formation so you can get all of there attacks in.

you also dont need such a HUGE unit of knights.

Take warshrines 1 is good 2 is great 3 is overkill. take your chosen champion with favor of the gods is a 5 pts item. with that you can manipulte the chart on your chosen until you get something really good.

commands are a waste of points for the command you could take more worriors!!! musicians are pretty good though so keep them in mind but standards and champs in reg worriors are not worth it.

with droping a few knights and commands you should be able to take a wizard and beef up your hero a bit

[BrokenWing]

Why on earth would you drop standards in any unit that is going to see combat? You never know what circumstances you'll come up against and you don't want to lose a combat because you couldn't be bothered to pay for a flag. If you're going to drop anything from the warriors, drop the musician, ties are less common. Dropping the Champion would also be ok.

To be clear, I'm not sure I was saying to take more Chosen, so much as 9 Chosen will die very easily (especially if you run into Dwarves, who will kill all 9 Chosen in 1 turn of shooting with ease) so much as saying Chosen just aren't really worth it in smaller games, like 1,500 points. I don't know about Knights, I rarely run knights and I only do so in larger games, but I think 10 might be a little much for 1,500 points.

I'm not going to tell you what to take or not take, I just want to make a few suggestions that you might consider.

[Strassa]

take a standard that give you +1 res or a worrior that can give you potentially +3? ill take the +3

[BrokenWing]

The difference is that the flag is a constant, the warrior is a maybe. It really depends on what you end up fighting, the flag will always be useful, the extra 3 attacks might find itself going up against something with a 2+ save and fail to cause any casualties. The flag *can't* fail.

Edit: Additionally, a flag can be upgraded if you say, don't take the Champion, to give some sort of bonus to all of the guys in the Regiment.

[Strassa]

if your going to take an upgraded flag thats fine but if its stock dont take it. o and if you run the banner goes bye bye waste of points, so not only did you loose that 16ps standard you lost that model as well

[BrokenWing]

If 15 warriors run, it probably doesn't matter if your banner dies, because chances are pretty strong you're not getting your warriors back either. I find 15 warriors disconcerting, I think 20 is a better number to go with, you get an extra rank both for rank bonuses and to take shooting casualties from while still remaining competitive in combat. If you were to drop the Chosen (I know, it's hard) you'd have the points left over to beef that regiment to 20, upgrade their flag and still take something else. Heck, you could probably get a warshrine if you dropped that and cut your knights in half.

[Strassa]

i would love to play you and show you a thing or two

[BrokenWing]

That's a pretty interesting comment coming from someone with no clue as to how I play, or even what my army list is. I'm not here to challenge someone to a dual or try to claim to be a better player than someone else, especially over the internet. I just want to help the OP with a few army list suggestions he can take or discard as he pleases in accordance with the type of army list he wants and the play style that best suits him.

[dankdrummer]

from someone who plays chaos (and has for 10 years) units of 15 is much more effective because when you have 20 that extra rank isnt going to see combat is a waste of points that has the ability to be in another unit. now as always its my opinion that chosen are great!! and knights are a 40 point warrior with S5, not a bad thing but still over priced. i'd rather have another unit of 15 warriors and another 10 chosen over knights.

as well, a sorcerer is a must to at least try to despell. use the black tongue and try to manipulate the other casters, as i've seen third eye of tzeentch is AWESOME, if you opponent takes life or light or anything like that and you can take their spells for the turn that's awesome.

but thats just how i see it.

[dankdrummer]

Why on earth would you drop standards in any unit that is going to see combat? You never know what circumstances you'll come up against and you don't want to lose a combat because you couldn't be bothered to pay for a flag. If you're going to drop anything from the warriors, drop the musician, ties are less common. Dropping the Champion would also be ok.

To be clear, I'm not sure I was saying to take more Chosen, so much as 9 Chosen will die very easily (especially if you run into Dwarves, who will kill all 9 Chosen in 1 turn of shooting with ease) so much as saying Chosen just aren't really worth it in smaller games, like 1,500 points. I don't know about Knights, I rarely run knights and I only do so in larger games, but I think 10 might be a little much for 1,500 points. r.

for me commands in chaos are absolutely a point sink because warriors normally win combat seeing how they are always the elite force (aside from a few exceptions form the elf armies) because they are a CORE choice. now from my experience you are either going to win combat by a landslide, OR you are going to tie or loose by a little, no sense in watching 15+ point models (more like 20-21 point models) get run down in mass graves in 20+ man unit sizes.

[Strassa]

ahahahaha o my I wasn't challenging you since I know i couldn't play you i was just saying it would be nice. I love showing people up with my unorthidox style of play and watch them eat every last one of thier words

[BrokenWing]

for me commands in chaos are absolutely a point sink because warriors normally win combat seeing how they are always the elite force (aside from a few exceptions form the elf armies) because they are a CORE choice. now from my experience you are either going to win combat by a landslide, OR you are going to tie or loose by a little, no sense in watching 15+ point models (more like 20-21 point models) get run down in mass graves in 20+ man unit sizes.

A lot of that has to do with your local meta. If I didn't run command around here I'd have major problems, considering there are two other chaos armies. Of course, I don't typically run warriors at all (except in larger games or smaller ones where I can't field my other units yet) and have zero problems dealing with them. Also small unit sizes around here just get murdered by all the shooting that's flying around.

[Liam]

Play Nice, both of you or I'll get the stick out.

Not to take sides, but I can see why you'd only want 15 men in a unit, however I can also see the reasoning behind 20. I'd always take the Standard and Mus, but chances are not the champions (silly challenge rules). Your argument for not wanting that standard is it buys you an extra guy, however your also saying that you don't take more than 15 due to the amount you can actually fight with. In that situation, if 11 are going to make it to combat (presuming 5 wide), the banner is clearly the better choice as that's a +1, while the guy at the back does nothing.

To be honest it'd really depend on the situation as to what I took. If I was in a team event where losing points was a concern I'd take 20's, if I was playing solo I'd be tempted with 16/17, so you get 3 ranks into combat (5 wide), but can combat reform to make the most of the matchup's you want to fight.

[BrokenWing]

It's all cool.

I'm assuming the non-flag formation would be 6 wide rather than 5 to take advantage of an extra model.

I'm going to be working on a 10,000 point list tonight (so I can plan the rest of my purchases out) and I was debating a few units of 20 Warriors in it.

Really the only thing I strongly disagree with the OP's list on is the Chosen. I think you should either *take Chosen* or not. If you're *taking chosen* then you're spending a lot of points on them...and at 1,500 points I just don't think it's worth doing. Warriors should be good enough.

[dankdrummer]

It's all cool.

I'm assuming the non-flag formation would be 6 wide rather than 5 to take advantage of an extra model.

I'm going to be working on a 10,000 point list tonight (so I can plan the rest of my purchases out) and I was debating a few units of 20 Warriors in it.

Really the only thing I strongly disagree with the OP's list on is the Chosen. I think you should either *take Chosen* or not. If you're *taking chosen* then you're spending a lot of points on them...and at 1,500 points I just don't think it's worth doing. Warriors should be good enough.

well, in my opinion if your playing 10k, you need more stability. not to say that warriors will panic.......because they normally dont, but my dice arent that favorable to me......ha ha but in that large of a game i would say a lot of 6-7 wide (or more) with 20-30 warriors, to me that makes perfect sense

[BrokenWing]

I have been considering a regiment of 66 warriors 10 wide. The times I've run 40+ of them in random big games they've been really effective, if not freakishly expensive. Good way to gain 1,000 points when you don't have a bunch of extra models though =).