Land Raider

[Ann]

My space marine husband has discovered the land raider and wants to buy one post-haste. All to the good for me, though I was hoping to delay the mechanized creep/arms race in our games for a few months but there is no standing in the way of progress, I guess.

He had a couple of questions and before he left for work asked me to post them for him, since he isn't on the forums.

What is the point of having the 12 or 16 model carrying capacity given that marine squads pretty much are 10 guys maximum? Is it so you can carry more terminators?

The regular land raider has the "assault vehicle" rule which states, "Models disembarking from any access point on a Land Raider can launch an assault on the turn they do so (p. 81). He's curious to know how this changes the regular rules for assaulting. Does this mean the Land Raider can move at combat or even cruising speed and then still have passengers disembark and launch an assault on the same turn or does it mean something else or that and something else too?

thank you,

Ann

[The Dark Pwner]

Normally you cant assault from a moving vehicle. Land Raiders are the only vehicle that allow this. Thus you could move it 12" then disembark and then assault giving you 20" Assault Range. And yes the extra room is for the terminators. or black templars who can get to those squad sizes.

[Ann]

Thank you for the clarification. I blame myself really - hubby has been seeing me do exactly that with my open-topped vehicles and now he wants to do it too.

Another question: I see the models are $66 for both the regular LR and the LR/Crusader-Redeemer. Is it like the Rhino versus Razorback where you can buy the Crusader-Redeemer and make it just a regular LR if you want or are they substantially different in any way? I know he'd like to have the option to field any of the three variations.

-- Ann

[edmundblack]

The Crusader/Redeemer are one kit but with options to make either. Generally, the Crusader comes out on top due to larger capacity (up to 8 Terminators) and you can move 12", fire one weapon with the Machine Spirit and still disembark and assault.

[Ann]

Yes, and I see you can do the clown car unload and assault dance with all three of them, which I know is a big priority with hubby.

[edmundblack]

You can, but you're then looking at around 750 points. In three tanks. They might be AV14, but melta weaponry care not and in my experience even str8 weapons can ruin your day through a speculative shot. Lances are just annoying, and haywire is a masssive jerk-fest. Stun-lock them down and it can fall apart quite easily, and the guys inside will be too few to put up with much in the way of fire power or assault.

[daddy4count]

... and yes, the higher model capacity is for more bodies...

If he wants to stick his Captain with a tactical squad, that's 11 guys. Terminators take 2 seats, so you can't fit any IC's with a squad in a regular LR. Most go for the LRC with MM and EA upgrades.

Keep in mind too, at the points level you guys currently play adding a LR is going to throw his list into somewhat of a tailspin. You're at 700-ish points... just this adds a big chunk of points!

[Ann]

Yes, I know, but I figure that is his look-out not mine. We are playing about 1000 points now, though I could easily go to 1500 myself and hubby is furious building more guys as well. Personally I think he should wait on the LR a bit, and consider a bike squad to protect his captain who he has taken to putting on a bike and sending out on lone, suicide strike missions which usually end in him getting instant killed (last game it was by a lucky shot from my looted wagon's boom gun ... the game before from a shot in the liver via kill kan's kustom mega blasta!) but he has stopped asking me for advice and I'm definitely not one to give advice where it is not asked for, either in Warhammer or in life. This, I've found is one of the secrets to a happy marriage!

-- Ann

p.s. Good points, Edmund, and I surely have a lot of Str 8 and various anti-armor goodness floating around in my army now, since when people see Waaagh!: Ann coming they have a lamentable tendency to mech up for some reason. Hubby has probably been muttering in a corner at the game store with his space marine support group/compatriots again and this is the result.

[edmundblack]

If he's on a bike, he needs a Command Squad on bikes. It's just such a cool concept and very versatile squad. They can (and do) take on anything and prevail.

Mech is just the way to go, but generally it's with Rhinos and such. Land Raiders are every bit as vulnerable to being killed as a Rhino, but if a Rhino goes it's a few points, not 1/3 of your army or something.

[Ann]

Well, at least they are immune to being mobbed by ork boyz and a lot of my other stuff since they don't have back armor problems.

Yes, I agree ... the captain needs guys to command on bikes to follow him around and do his bidding. What is the point of being an officer if you don't have guys to scream at and make yourself feel important and of course to take a rokkit for the team?

I figure if he wants his land raider then he'll get it with my blessing and he'll have to learn the hard way the good and bad that comes with it. As for me, I look forward to blowing it up and seeing the look on his face in a 1000 point game. I appreciate all of the advice. My Someday Space Marine Chapter is gratefully filing this all away for their own use, which reminds me. Has anyone had experience with the space marine battle force set and are the models of reasonable quality?

-- Ann

[edmundblack]

This one? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1060108

Not too bad. The Assault Marines are bit of a so-so squad (unless you do Blood Angels) but the rest is OK. Could possibly make them up as normal Tac Marines and get two squads of 10 from it.

[Ann]

I meant are the models physically of reasonable quality compared to the models you can buy in the separate packages? Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Yes, I see what you mean about the assault marines being so-so. Hubby doesn't have any but I've faced them in three different regular marine armies and I'm not saying they aren't useful, but I haven't been overly impressed so far by how I've seen them used.

[daddy4count]

At 1500 points he will be fine with the LR... that's where I like to start looking at them.

I must have missed a few batreps. I thought you guys were still running low point games. At this rate you'll be at Apocalypse levels by 6ED

[BrokenWing]

I like to start looking at Land Raiders on the store shelf personally. Then I start looking at them in my car. Then I look at them with glue and supplies ready to go =). Land Raiders are like candy to me, sadly, I currently only have 3 =(.

He should invest in a Land Raider, that's an excellent idea. He needs to determine what he wants to do most with it though. The regular land raider is really best as a weapons support platform that can also move guys around. The other two are best for close range assaults and objective clearing. I have a serious love affair with the Redeemer. A friend of mine runs a Crusader with Chronus (the tank upgrade guy in the marine codex) and it's just sick. Expensive, but sick.

[daddy4count]

mmmmm... Chronified Land Raider... *drool*

[BrokenWing]

I know right? Excuse me while I roll up into 12 inches and fire everything. Oh yeah, I only need twos to hit on my twin-linked weapons. Oh look at that, I didn't miss.

[Ann]

I thought you guys were still running low point games. At this rate you'll be at Apocalypse levels by 6ED

Oh, I haven't been doing battle reports lately. I've been playing so many games with various people lately and running my Pathfinder game that I just haven't had the inclination lately.

-- Ann

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I meant are the models physically of reasonable quality compared to the models you can buy in the separate packages? Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Yes, I see what you mean about the assault marines being so-so. Hubby doesn't have any but I've faced them in three different regular marine armies and I'm not saying they aren't useful, but I haven't been overly impressed so far by how I've seen them used.

The sprues that come in the battleforce are the same sprues out of the single boxes. So the models are exactly the same. Only Assault on Black Reach and the 5 man combat squad boxes have click fit models.

[Wolfmaster]

Ragnar Blackmane, Lukas the Trickster and 14 other Blood Claws jumping out of a Crusader with Berserk Charge, 2 meltaguns and other various toys can ruin your opponent's day

[daddy4count]

Ragnar Blackmane, Lukas the Trickster and 14 other Blood Claws jumping out of a Crusader with Berserk Charge, 2 meltaguns and other various toys can ruin your opponent's day

My younger son enjoys sending Ulrik the Slayer + 15 BC's, 2 flamers and a Power Fist in a LRC... that's good times right there.