fluff shenanigans?

[daddy4count]

I know nothing of Grey Knights outside of the new codex and one novel (Hammer of Daemons)

So why is everybody so pissed at Matt Ward?

Granted some of this stuff is ridiculous... but it doesn't seem that awful to me.

Would the veteran GK fans mind filling me in on what is so different in the new fluff?

[Architech]

it's because it's so ridiculous...rather than simply being good. Black library and many other gw writers seem to think that to be bad-ass you have to be over the top.

[daddy4count]

I can see that... but is it really that bad with the Knights?

Or is it just that each codex has to be bigger, better, faster than the last?

The general concept of space marines can be summed up as over the top and ridiculous...

[Architech]

There is a bit of escalation on the ridiculous

[edmundblack]

For the most part, it's OK. It's about what you'd expect Grey Knights to do: landing on a planet, beating face, leaving the job done. There's cool bits about Dreadknights coming in at a key moment, the secrecy of the Purifiers etc etc. Where it really falls down is Draigo. They needed the Chapter Master to be the best of the best. If we take the best to be Calgar (punching an Avatar ffs), then Draigo needs to be better than that. Unfortunately, once started "even more awesome" was layered on to such an extent that it just became laughable. Even for Space Marines, or Grey Knights, there's a point which you have to think "Yeah, OK. I don't think so". Draigo passed that by many times. However, take Crowe and I think his fluff stands up OK. It does make sense. Doesn't stop him being a useless twat of a points-tax though.

[commandojimbob]

I agree with D4C - it really is not that bad and certainly nowhere near as bad as the internet cries out .

The reality is Draigo LOST ! He is forever cursed to walk the warp - he lives because Chaos allows him to live NOT because he is the bad ass (although he is) - I mean he is really just a training dummy for Khorne (even suggests that) - everything he does in the warp is utter futile and achieves nothing. I like his fluff - he is a lost soul and on occassions he manages to break free to help his brothers but for him to then be sucked back in .

[Angelofblades]

The main fluff failure is really draigo. The stupid part being where he carves his name into Mortarion's heart. Not just any greater daemon, but a daemon primarch. Not even other primarch's could beat their daemon counterparts, in fact, all those who have tried were killed. IE Guilliman and Sanguinius.

So if not even the primarch could best their own daemon counterparts, how does a GK, who stands nowhere close to a primarch in terms of ability. He doesn't, that's the short and sweet of it.

[daddy4count]

gotcha.... so we have next level ridiculous... and then Draigo is the cherry on top.

Waaaaaay on top...

Thanks, gang

[Angelofblades]

The sad thing is, he really didn't need to be all that bad ass. The fact that he is the Supreme Grand Master is bad ass enough as it is. His rules, are bad ass, the only GK with a storm shield is bad ass enough.

Oh I also thought that him cleansing warp metal, sanctifying it and making a new sword was kind of ridiculous toooooo....

I mean, the Titansword could have simply been a relic and badge of office of the Supreme Grand Master, not, he killed a Blood thirster, took it's weapon, cleansed it and made another weapon out of it, in the warp no less.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Grey Knights are daemons or at the very least consort with them. Just think about it for a second.

1) Titan disappeared into the warp for 1000 years. We all know what happens in there.
2) They have a member who summons spiritual warriors to fight for him (sounds like daemons to me)
3) Stern sends everyone to the warp, not just daemons. What purpose there if not to feed souls to daemons?
4) Crowe carries a daemon weapon into combat, and is not tempted. Much like a strong daemon wouldn't be tempted by another.
5) They performed a blood ritual with unknowing innocents' blood.
6) Their Supremem Grand Master can survive in the pure warp, and continues to get sucked back into it.

That's how bad the fluff is. You can actually argue that GKs are the exact opposite of what they are meant to be.

Edit: On Draigo, I find the most ridiculous part the fact that he boxed the Bloodthirster to death. Think about it, he didn't have his weapon anymore. What did he use to kill the Bloodthirster? His fists, obviously, cuz he's THE AWESOMERS!

[daddy4count]

Hmmmm... or maybe it follows the Lucasesque formula whereby Luke Skywalker becomes the most powerful Jedi ever in life because he touched both light and dark... and returned to the light?

I agree, it is hinky... Daemonhosts and Jakero monkeys...

So we suffer the witch, as long as he wears silver armor
We suffer the xeno, as long as he gives us cool weapons
We suffer the daemon, as long as it serves our purpose

[jettzypher]

regardless if they may be of daemons, they still serve their true purpose: protecting the the universe from the forces of the underworld.

[GKnight]

Hmmmm... or maybe it follows the Lucasesque formula whereby Luke Skywalker becomes the most powerful Jedi ever in life because he touched both light and dark... and returned to the light?

I agree, it is hinky... Daemonhosts and Jakero monkeys...

So we suffer the witch, as long as he wears silver armor
We suffer the xeno, as long as he gives us cool weapons
We suffer the daemon, as long as it serves our purpose

Daemon hosts are used by radical inquisitors who a GK can't really do anything to do to being above them. It also clearly states in the codex they have worked with a few different xeno races including elder. The first part yeah kind of dumb for GK to have a Daemon even a host in the ranks don't care for it IMO... but seeing as they are fighting daemons I could see uniting even if just in secret with Xeno. The enemy of my enemy is my friend after all.
Other then that I like the fluff besides as everyone said Draigo, way over the top. Just had to say He leads the GK list of battles and some of the stuff he did ie kicking daemon ass, taking out the whole beating a daemon primarch single handed and trapped in the warp forever crap. Guess what still a bad ass but believable. Also wish Matt would have sat down and , ready for crazy idea, read the books for Grey Knights or had Ben Counter help his team. I know last part is crazy a guy who wrote a bunch of great books about Grey Knights has input in the fluff