1850 BA Marine spam

[sdavid86]

I'm back again with another tourney list! Those with long memories remember me from 2 months ago with a list for a local tournament where I tried to balance my mech and infantry. As was predicted by the forum-goers I did very poorly. Well there's another tournament at the end of this month and I'm giving it another crack.

Here's my list, focusing on fast units and lots of marines:

*[HQ] Librarian with jump pack (blood lance/shield of sanguinius) - 125
*[HQ] Reclusiarch with infernus pistol - 145
*[Troop] 10 man assault squad with power weapon/infernus pistol and 2 meltaguns - 240
*" " - 240
*" " - 240
*[Troop] 8 man Death Company squad with 1 thunder hammer/bolter and 2 power weapon/pistol (the rest have chainsword/pistol) - 220
*[Ded. Transport] Drop pod - 35
*[Elite] 2 Sanguinary Priests with power weapon and jump pack - 180
*[Fast Attack] 3 Attack Bikes with multi-melta - 150
*[Fast Attack] Baal Predator with TL assault cannon/heavy bolter sponsons - 145
*[Heavy Support] 5 man Devastator Squad with 4 missile launchers - 130

Total - 1850

Reclusiarch goes with the DC in the drop pod for a scary turn 1 landing. Each assault squad has an IC attached and run across the board in tight formation so everyone has Feel No Pain and Shield of Sanguinius. Baal Pred prob outflanks, bikes go Flat Out so they can melt some armor and the Dev squad sits still all game and fires missiles.

The core of assault troops/sang priests/lib have always done me well, the opponent basically has 1 turn to try and eliminate them before they get over-run. The bikes perform amazingly every game (and I swear they ALWAYS get Red Thirst for some reason) as does the Baal. The Devastators don't really fit the theme of mobility but I'm not sure using my 2 land speeders instead is a good idea, being the only armor I'd have on the board until the Baal arrives.
The DC are another odd point of the list I'm not 100% sold on. In a land raider they're awesome but since I'm avoiding armor that's a no-go. A drop pod is MUCH cheaper than jump packs and comes in safely 1st turn, but they're sitting ducks for a turn. Would 5 assault termies with thunder hammer better weather the storm of fire they'd inevitably face?

Criticism and advice please!

[wookieplus]

Its a tough list, like it.

Food for thought:
- replace the Baal with a pred with LC sponsons. This gives you some turn-1 threat removal capability. Then again I've always felt the Baal was overpriced so I'm probably biased (or havent worked out how to use them effectively)
- Give the libby Sword of Sanguinius instead of one of the others. S10 forceweapon is great for taking out those pesky MCs. NB elsewhere on the forum someone pointed out that the Sword only needs to be cast once per game, it has no expiry, so it can be used with the Force weapon.
- split the ABs into 2 groups. A group of 2 ABs find it easy to get cover (only one model needs to be partially obscured), and you get more tactical options as you can send bikes in more than one direction. I love ABs as well - used 4 of them to support an all-infantry army in one tournament
- consider a second libby rather than the reclusiarch. He sits in the middle of the DC squad so he cant be charged by an IC. Reasons: (1) it means you have a reasonable chance of preventing enemy psy right in his troop area turn 1 with psychic hood. (2) If you give him Fear, you have a good chance of chasing an enemy infantry unit off his baseline turn 1 just by shooting at them. (3) give him Sword as well, and you have a good IC-killer (or Guard tank-killer) near his rear-line forces. Alternatively you can give him different skills and have different threats, depending on your playstyle.

[Woggie_666]

Really can't see any reason to drop pod the DC, they will drop disembark fire bolters then get killed, DC's strength lies in getting the charge other wise they just expensive bullet fodder. If you really really want to pod them in you'll need to invest in some inferno pistols

[Morr]

Really can't see any reason to drop pod the DC, they will drop disembark fire bolters then get killed, DC's strength lies in getting the charge other wise they just expensive bullet fodder. If you really really want to pod them in you'll need to invest in some inferno pistols

the army focus seems to be a turn 2 charge so podding dc works nicely as the enemy will have to focus a lot of firepower to get rid of them. plus the pod will give them cover.

[Angelofblades]

the army focus seems to be a turn 2 charge so podding dc works nicely as the enemy will have to focus a lot of firepower to get rid of them. plus the pod will give them cover.

But the shooting phase isn't the only phase that the opponent has on a turn. The DC will never get to charge, because they would end up getting charged after being shot.

Here's the simply math of it, the DC + IC = 20% of his army

20% vs 100% = dead 20%

That's simply what happens when you throw a piece of your army vs the entirety of the opponent's army.

[Morr]

It completely depends on who you are playing and deployment. Its ridiculous to say catagorically that in an unknown situation the deathcompany would die for sure. And the argument that the cc phase would be used against them is unrealistic as thats kinda what they are there for.

[Angelofblades]

Is it really that far fetched to think that if you devoted your entire army to the obliteration of a single unit, that you could not achieve that, in a full single turn?

In your previous post, you stated this army is focused on a turn 2 charge. To achieve that, the DC must drop pod in the danger zone. Rapid fire range or closer. I mean, is it really that far fetched to think that a player, could not achieve total destruction of a single enemy unit, with his entire army, at such close range, especially at 1850 pts?

I think not.

The concept is called Focus Fire

[sdavid86]

Well it seems that the Death Company are certainly a point of contention in the list. So what can be done, within my bounds of "minimal vehicles," to improve them/the list? I do not want to pay the points for something that is going to get blasted away turn 1, even if it keeps my troops largely whole. That's not an exchange. So what is the solution?

Keeping with my theme Vanguard Vets seem like a good choice, since they fill largely the same role. With the (145+220+35=400) points removing the DC would free up I could make a truly terrifying Vanguard Vets squad. Or I could get another HQ and give him an Honor Guard of some sort (with jump packs, of course). Sanguinary Guard are an option, although I do not feel I have the finesse to make them shine. Hell, if I wanted to be TRULY spammy I could get another Lib and 10 man assault squad. Your thoughts?

[Angelofblades]

It really depends on the tactics that you want to run. BA are an army that you should have specific tactics in mind in how to run your units. Units must have specific defined roles as to what they do for you.

Here's the list that won the last tournament I went to:

Libby
shield + rage

Furioso
EA, SL

3 x Priests
3 x PW's

5 man Assault squad
Melta, PW
Razorback
TLAC, DB, SL

5 man Assault squad
Melta, PW
Razorback
TLAC, DB, SL

5 man Assault squad
Melta, PW
Razorback
TLLC, DB, SL

5 man Assault squad
Melta, PW

2 MM AB

Baal Pred
HB, SL

Pred
Auto/ Las

Pred
Auto/ Las

Storm Raven
EA. SL

That's 1850 on the dot, and it's a really nasty list. Notice the amount of support fire it has, and some really nasty dedicated CC units. There's enough FnP to go around to keep those 20 marines alive for long enough, and all those power weapons ensure that the squads can rip through infantry in CC.

I watched his last game against Mech Wolves, in where 1 priest and 1 PW Sgt charge 10 Grey hunters, won combat by 3, and escorted the GH off the board. The GH lacked close combat upgrades. But still, 2 marines vs 10 marines, you would think the 10 marines would win it.

[Morr]

Thats a pretty strong list. Im trying to pick holes in it but its very well rounded. Maybe a greyknight psyfleman and razorback/psycannon spam list could give it a run but yeah even that would be pretty even.