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  1. #1
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Theory Craft, give this model a point value!

    EDIT; new PDF with suggested changes and rule progression now attached.

    Give this model a point value! Unlisted items of note;

    He is an Assault Unit (jump pack)
    No Ranged Weaponry
    Will be able to join a similar unit with similar Power Weapons/No Ranged, the won't have chainfist type ability.

    Attached Files
    Last edited by Tbcrow; 10th February 2012 at 09:57.
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  2. #2
    Lord of the Pit Baragash's Avatar
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    I think I would expect something in the 170-180 range without being able to reference Codices.


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  3. #3
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) Brother-Captain Sharp's Avatar
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    2 points.

    1) Your rules for Warp Jump does not include any rules for mishapping. That plus being able to charge is potentially borked.

    2) Captains have Iron Halos. Those provide a 4+ invulnerable.

    Dr. Manfredel is wrong. That kind of thinking is never justified.
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  4. #4
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Crud I forgot the portion with the attached unit, I was so excited to get it done lol. He never mishaps, but when you jump with a unit they all have to roll a die. Any rolls of 1 mean they were lost to the warp.

    You don't think a 4+ Invuln would be to much?

    Last edited by Tbcrow; 10th February 2012 at 08:57.
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  5. #5
    Lord of the Pit Baragash's Avatar
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    1) The rules say he's placed in the nearest safe location, so I understood that to remove Mishap, the language probably needs tightening a bit

    2) Carachadons' Chapter structure is a mystery to outsiders, so whilst I did have the same thought as you when I was reading it, it's not necessarily that strange. (Certainly not as weird as Lisa Issodon not having one!)

    @Tbcrow : is the power scythe always used as a Chainfist?


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  6. #6
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Added chance for Mishap, fails, invlun fix, and clarified a few rule points.


    SPECIAL RULES
    And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Independent Character.

    Warp Jump; Duron salvaged the warp gate that brought them to Octavian Prime, seeing that it could be immensely useful in combat. Once per game Duron can warp jump up to 24”during the movement phase. Using or attempting to use Warp Jump counts as your movement phase. Roll a D6, on a roll of 1 the warp gate doesn’t properly deploy. If successful, roll a scatter die and D6 with full scatter. On the scatter location, place a large blast template that deals S5 AP4. Place Duron the minimum possible distance from the template to warp without mishap. Duron and his unit ignore difficult and dangerous terrain tests during the movement phase of Warp Jump, as the warp blast has cleared any debris. Duron and his unit may Assault after executing a warp jump.

    Only an Angels of Death Assault Squad may travel with Duron if he warp jumps. If Duron is attached to another unit, he leaves that unit upon successful execution of the jump. Roll a die for every model in the unit that is warp jumping, except for Duron. Any rolls of 1 result in instant death, as the model was lost to the warp.

    Counter Attack; Duron has an confers the Counter Attack ability to any unit he is attached to.

    Wargear
    Duron’s Power Scythe; Customized even more so than the Power Scythes of his unit, Duron’s Power Scythe is able to super heat itself, allowing it to function as a Chain Fist. The Chain Fist ability only applies when attacking targets with an Armor Value, otherwise the Power Scythe functions as normal.

    Iron Halo; An Iron Halo incorporates a powerful energy field that can turn aside even the most deadly attack. It grants a 4+ invulnerable save.

    Last edited by Tbcrow; 10th February 2012 at 09:28.
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  7. #7
    Lord of the Pit Baragash's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tbcrow View Post
    Roll a D6, on a roll of 1 the warp gate doesn’t properly deploy.
    ...which means? (ie Duron cannot make the move).

    Originally Posted by Tbcrow View Post
    If successful, roll a scatter die and D6. On the scatter location, place a large blast template that deals S5 AP4.
    Automatic Hits? To every model under the template? Specifically affects the models under the template or just x hits on the squad (ie normal shooting allocation). Is a shooting attack (ie allows Cover saves)?

    Originally Posted by Tbcrow View Post
    Only an Angels of Death Assault Squad may travel with Duron if he warp jumps. If Duron is attached to another unit, he leaves that unit upon execution of the jump. Roll a die for every model in the unit that is warp jumping, except for Duron. Any rolls of 1 result in instant death, as the model was lost to the warp.
    The roll a 1 and die should be in the previous paragraph of the rules as it's part of that process. The prhase "instant death" should be "removed as a casualty with no Saves of any kind".

    Originally Posted by Tbcrow View Post
    Duron’s Power Scythe; Customized even more so than the Power Scythes of his unit, Duron’s Power Scythe is able to super heat itself, allowing it to function as a Chain Fist. The Chain Fist ability only applies when attacking targets with an Armor Value, otherwise the Power Scythe functions as normal.
    You haven't explicitly said it's a power weapon (yes, I know it's strongly implied ).

    This example explicitly states how it works, and clearly separates the rules and fluff text.
    Duron's Power Scythe:
    Customized even more so than the Power Scythes of his unit, Duron’s Power Scythe is able to super heat itself, allowing it to function as a Chain Fist.
    When attacking model's with an Armour Value, Duron's Power Scythe works in the same way as a Chainfist. Against other models it works in the same way as a Power Weapon.

    On the basis that Captain Blaylock is about 150-160 points IIRC, I think the range I originally quoted above is still about right.


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  8. #8
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Baragash you're the man.

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  9. #9
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Done, hopefully I've filled all of the logic/rule gaps.

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  10. #10
    Lord of the Pit Baragash's Avatar
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    On a scale of 1 (not very) to 10 (very) how picky do you want me to be?


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  11. #11
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baragash View Post
    On a scale of 1 (not very) to 10 (very) how picky do you want me to be?
    Let's go with 10. Honest to god solid feedback is completely underrated, and I appreciate every bit of the time you invest in it.

    I see a few questions that could be raised, the first being, if you fail Warp Jump, does that count as your once per game? I mean, logically, you attempted the skill, it didn't work, and therefore it's gone. Example; If I fire a flare but miss my mark, I might not get the illumination I want, but it's not like I can go pick up the flare and try again.

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  12. #12
    Morr's Avatar
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    The entire gate concept is ok but its execution is incongrous(?) with other similar mechanics. I would simplify it to work like a shunt move for grey knights. If you want to keep it as a portal mechanic I would make it a deep strike move which doesnt scatter although I would prevent him from assaulting after. Its not a well liked mechanic as it gives you a range of 30" as it is in which any vehicle or squad could be wiped out. Also strength 5 is out of the ordinary. very few marines have a strength of over 4. I would drop his strength to 4 and make the scythe work as either a relic blade or a chainfist although I dont get why he should have a chain fist at all. Maybe just a relic blade which inflicts instant death would be simpler. I like the character of the captain so maybe add in an upgrade for vanguard units to have relic blades (the scythe things).

    As he is I would value him at 200 - 230ish points

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  13. #13
    Tbcrow's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Morr View Post
    The entire gate concept is ok but its execution is incongrous(?) with other similar mechanics. I would simplify it to work like a shunt move for grey knights. If you want to keep it as a portal mechanic I would make it a deep strike move which doesnt scatter although I would prevent him from assaulting after. Its not a well liked mechanic as it gives you a range of 30" as it is in which any vehicle or squad could be wiped out. Also strength 5 is out of the ordinary. very few marines have a strength of over 4. I would drop his strength to 4 and make the scythe work as either a relic blade or a chainfist although I dont get why he should have a chain fist at all. Maybe just a relic blade which inflicts instant death would be simpler. I like the character of the captain so maybe add in an upgrade for vanguard units to have relic blades (the scythe things).

    As he is I would value him at 200 - 230ish points
    You're spot on with all of your observations. I might have to tweak it a bit, but I want all of his abilities and items to be weird, and outside of the regular operation of the game. He is a 100 years from the past, from the most mysterious active space marine chapter. Hell, the rest of the chapters just guess Tyberos is the chapter master, he might be a company commander.

    If I follow the mold, I lose what makes what I'm working on important, which is that flavor of originality. It might make him overall slightly expensive, but he's T4, not like a million random cheese things couldn't instant death him. I didn't add eternal warrior to maintain that balance.

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  14. #14
    Morr's Avatar
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    Definatly stick with what you feel makes him unique. Thats what attracts people to special characters.

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