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  1. #1

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    My thoughts on Nids in 6th ed

    My assessment of how 6th edition translates for Tyranids. I will try to avoid copying lines directly from the rule book and codex so you’ll need both of those for yourself, access to the Tyranid FAQ will also be helpful in understanding my statements.

    Generalizations concerning the movement, shooting and assault phases for nids.

    The Movement phase is mostly unchanged, still 6 inches for the most part, good news is that failed dangerous terrain tests can be armor saved (not much, but every little bit counts, like when you need to cross a wrecked vehicle to attack the enemy).

    The Shooting phase has some alterations, going to ground for cover saves will still allow you to shoot via snap shot, wound allocation from shooting is worked out against the closest visible model in the target until either no more saves need to be made or that model dies, then move onto the next closest etc… Cover saves have also changed, cover is on a model-by-model basis, and so models not in cover will likely die first and die fast. It’s wise to keep the entire unit inside terrain (to protect all of them). On a good note, monstrous creatures get cover just like infantry, by standing in area terrain or by having 25% of their body obscured (Vehicles not that we have any, get cover by having 25% of the side/facing being shot at obscured, so cover is accessible to vehicles in this new edition). Running is still running for the most part, minor changes not worth mentioning.

    Assaulting has taken a major overhaul. First off the special rule of Fleet is vastly different, can’t assault after you run, fleet lets the unit re-roll the dice if it runs or if it assaults. Soak that it. Back to assaulting, first you declare an assault vs one or more targets with your unit (yes you have to declare secondary targets now, can’t just connect to the first and chain to anything nearby). Then before you move all of the targets you declared get to Overwatch, basically they to shoot you before you assault with snap shots, luckily overwatch does not cause pinning or moral tests. On the flip side, if your unit is the target of an assault it too gets to overwatch (devilgaunts woot!). If you survive the overwatch, you now roll for a random charge distance (usually 2d6 added together), so you might not even make it to your target(s), but on the bright side if you roll good that’s a 12” assault move. Assaulting into or out of terrain is still hazardous (since most nids do not have assault grenades), also if your models would have to cross terrain for their assault the charge roll is 3d6 drop the highest die roll (fleet re-roll will help you get the most out of your distance roll). Good news for CC is that there is no longer ‘no retreat’ if you lose combat it’s a penalty to your moral test to see if you break from combat (but if you’re fearless you auto-pass moral tests so you just wait for the next round of fighting). There’s a bunch more changes to CC, but I think overwatch, fleet, random charge & no more no-retreat wounds are probably the most important to mention (even if these are not unique to nids).

    Reserves are also worth a mention; basically any unit that arrives from reserves cannot launch an assault the turn they arrive, unless they have a special rule stating otherwise. Dormant Ymgarl Genestealers! Also, only half of your army can be placed in reserves, again unless you have rules stating otherwise.
    Other notes of reduced assault efficiency, if a unit Infiltrates or Scouts, then it cannot launch an assault in the first turn of the game.

    All that said, it would appear that 6th edition 40K has taken a substantial shift away from assaults/close combats. While CC is still viable and beneficial, shooting seems to hold more of the limelight.

    The affects 6th edition have on Tyranid assets ranging from unit types, individual units, special rules & biomorphs.

    Unit Types:
    Infantry (such as the termagant, warrior, genestealer) are pretty much the same as they have always been in 40K, only special rules really alter how they function. Remember that cover saves are per model not unit so adjust your formation and movement accordingly.
    Beasts, like the ravener, get a 12-inch movement, they have the fleet and move through cover rules except understand when they charge they are not slowed by difficult terrain (so still 2d6, no 3d6 drop highest).
    Monstrous Creatures took a big change it seems too. MCs no longer add 2d6 to their strength when they hit a vehicle, instead they have a special rule called Smash which IMHO sucks. As mentioned previously MCs get cover like infantry so that’s a plus, lastly they also have a special rule called Fear, which looks kind interesting (unit in base contact that fail a Ld test fight at WS1 for that assault phase).
    Jump infantry like gargoyles & shrikes can jump in the movement phase to move up 12” or they can hold the jump for the assault phase which will let them reroll their charge distance (kinda like fleet) as well as grant them the Hammer of Wrath special rule (extra CC hit at I10 for models that are in base contact from the charge).
    Flying Monstrous Creatures (winged tyrants & harpies) have a whole mess of new rules; I’ll not go into any detail just the rules look pretty awesome.

    Tyranid Head Quarter’s Units:

    The Hive Tyrant is still an awesome head quarter’s choice to any nid army. Probably more so because of the new Warlord abilities and since I’ve always been a little disappointed by his codex psychic power the option to take different powers from the main rule book disciplines is very intriguing. I haven’t fully read all of the new psychic discipline powers but what has peeked my interest is that many of the powers are not psychic shooting attacks, which means that a Hive Tyrant can possibly fill a better support role if it acquires the right powers. Hive Commander is still a good power, but remember that reservists can’t charge the turn they arrive, so ultimately strategies involving reserves must be changed. Indescribable Horror is still pretty much a useless upgrade particularly since all MCs cause fear now (yes I know IH is pre-charge and fear is pre-attack, IH is still 25pts and thus not worth the cost, fear on the other hand is free). Old Adversary (aka preferred enemy) took some changes and the changes look good if you try to make a shooting bug army (re-rolling 1’s on all hits and wounds – devilgaunts woot!). HVC and STC have lost some efficiency (never liked the strangle thorn anyway) because they cannot be snap shot or overwatch. Armored Shell looks more promising because power weapons took a slight downgrade to being AP3 in close combat, but as the game is fraught with shooting opportunities an AP1 or AP2 gun is still going to bypass that shell.

    Tyrant Guard still a damn good choice for any Hive Tyrant or Swarmlord. Some extra cool news is a few changes to the working of certain special rules (formerly universal special rules) means that the Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord will confer move through cover to the unit. The FAQ has said that a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord attached to Tyrant Guard brood gets the independent character version of Look Out Sir (2+ to transfer a wound or unsaved wound to a T.Guard).

    Tyranid Primes are good but IMO have been slightly debuffed, independent characters no longer come stock with special rules ‘move through cover’ & ‘skilled rider’ (All IC’s got those in 5th). Characters, IC’s included, do get access to a few other special rules, like Look Out Sir, Precision Shot/Strikes, and Challenges. Look out sir, lets your character reallocate a wound or unsaved wound to a different model in the squad either before or after you attempt a save. Precision allows a character to pick which model they have hit if their to-hit roll is a 6. Challenges allow characters to fight just each other in close combat. Primes are still good HQ choices because they’re cheap point cost, and also like the Hive Tyrant you can enhance a Prime by making it your army’s Warlord.

    Tervigons are still solid HQ choices, but still serve better as a Troop choice when available. Main change is that bio weapon options may need rethinking, since blast weapons cannot fire in overwatch. With fearless no longer causing ‘no retreat’ wounds, Dominion is a very useful power. Catalyst is still good too. The option is there to trade for psychic discipline powers, but I think Tervigons are better off with their codex choices.

    Parasite of Mortrex, being a character/IC in 6th edition is definitely an improvement, mostly because of Look Out Sir. Being challenged could reduce the Parasite’s effectiveness in CC if the challenger is a better fighter. One nifty option is combining Hammer of Wrath with the Implant Parasite rule. The Parasite wouldn’t be my first choice to nominate as the army’s Warlord though.

    The Swarmlord, I still see him as overly priced, but definitely looks a lot better in 6th edition, more so than the Hive Tyrant I think the Swarmlord could benefit from trading to psychic discipline powers.

    Elite Units:

    Zoanthropes are still fantastic, only change is the new “Deny the Witch” rule adds a new step to resist psychic attacks (such as warp blast and warp lance). It could be interesting to experiment with psychic disciplines for zoanthropes or even just one ‘thrope from a brood.

    Lictors (and the Deathleaper) got a minor improvement. In CC wounds are allocated to the closest models first, like the ones in base contact. This means on the assault Lictors could kill all engaged enemy models before leaving no model in range to hit them back. But take this with a grain of salt, pile-ins still happen although quite differently so it could be possible for new attackers to re-engage and attack the Lictor further in that assault phase; and don’t forget sucking an Overwatch for declaring the assault.

    Hive Guard got a cool boost too. Remember how cover is on a per model basis and wounds get allocated to the closest model. Well there is also a subset of rules for attacking units that have some models in cover and some that are out, namely you can pick to focus fire at models in a certain range of cover (like the models that don’t have cover at all).

    Venomthropes took another nerfing in the FAQ. Only the Venomthrope’s unit negates the bonus attack from charging units against them, rather than this being the case for all friendly units within it’s Spore Cloud. Also remember armor saves can be used against failed dangerous terrain tests. So it doesn’t look too good for the Venomthrope.

    Ymgarl Genestealers are just aces! Dormant still allows them to assault the turn the come out of reserves. Overwatch is a problem, but Ym’s have a a 4+ armor save so hopefully not to many hit and wounds get through to them.

    Doom of Malan’tai is still a bad ass and because it can sometimes take a while for him to soak up the wounds to make firing the Cataclysm worthwhile, it could be fun to take a random psychic discipline power to play with. The Doom’s strength is mostly about the Spirit Leech anyway. Imagine the devastation if Doom was lucky enough to roll Haemorrhage or even Iron Arm (psychic shriek doesn’t look bad either coupled with spirit leech)…

    Pyrovores are still crappy.

    Tyranid Troops:

    Termagants are a good and versatile troop choice, they may not seem like it, but given that assaults are very risky because of random distance and overwatch, termagants have guns to execute their own overwatch! Devilguants are boss! (termagant armed with devourers).

    Hormagaunts do look a bit more cool I’ll have to admit. Even with changes to fleet, overwatch and random charge distance. And this is because Rage nolonger strips control of that unit, instead you don’t want your Hormagaunts in synapse range because rage gives you +2 attacks on the charge, which makes risking the assault that much more worth it.

    Genestealers took a some nerf batting. Fleet changed as already mentioned, as well infiltrating or outflanking prevents immediate assault attempts. Stealers are still a good unit as they have high leadership and rending is still AP2. As well the special rules for characters look promising for Broodlords. Not sure if I’d risk trading to a psychic discipline power, good number are ‘witchfire’ and the broodlord doesn’t have a BS to use them, so I’d wait for a future FAQ to shed more insight as to whether the broodlord is stuck with a power it can’t use or gets a new roll on the table.

    Tyranid Warriors are looking pretty good. The change to wound allocation means warriors are at equal footing with other multi-wound models again (aka no more wound allocation shenanigans).

    Ripper Swarms haven’t been changed. It could be worth taking the spinefist upgrade if you can goad your opponent into assaulting them.

    Tyranid Fast Attack units:

    Gargoyles are pretty good, with the changes to jumping. Hammer of Wrath makes it very tempting to assault with jump infantry

    Shrikes are nice mix of warrior and gargoyle, again Hammer of Wraith makes assaulting a tempting proposition.

    Because of the hammer of wrath it might be worth taking sky-slashers with any left over points. Remember the comments about rage for hormagaunts, which makes sky-slashers look that much better.

    Harpies are looks awesome with the flying monstrous creature rules. Only downsides I can see was mentioned with Hive Tyrants is that blast weapons (HVC, STC, Cluster spines) don’t get to fire as snap shot or overwatch, which can be a particular issue for Flying MCs if they are forced use the Jink rule (via Dive maneuver) and then there is the Grounded Tests for each ranged weapon hit against your Flying MC (that’s each Hit, not wound). One particular Flying MC rule makes me think Harpies are the go-to unit for dealing with enemy fliers, and that rule is Vector Strike, of course harpies are only S5, so some fliers like the stormraven are going to be out of their range to hurt (which are even a chore for a Winged Hive Tyrant’s S6)

    Raveners seem to fair okay with 6th edition rules. They have a potential for a 24” assault so as a beast they are the fastest assault threat in the game (which is the same assault threat range of units charging from assault vehicles too). As stated previously, Rage makes it very tempting to brave an assault attempt.

    Spore Mines get a slight boost from the way blast weapons work now, as in blast weapons are full strength against vehicles even if the center hole of the marker is not over the vehicle’s hull. But blast weapons cannot hit fliers or flying MCs that are in swooping mode. Otherwise no changes.

    Heavy Support Tyranids:

    Biovores haven’t changed aside from what was already noted with spore mines.

    Carnifexes have changed as noted with the basic changes of Monstrous Creatures. So to them the Smash special rule is garbage as ‘fexes are already S9 so doubling to a S10 isn’t worth losing half your attacks. Hammer of wrath is kinda cool as if Fear since it is free. Rage, though with Ld7 it’s a gamble that can’t quite be depended on, or if you have a shooty-fex you’ll want to avoid by sticking to synapse.

    The Trygon suffers just like the genestealer because fleet is no longer extra movement distance as well they do not fair as well against vehicles for the loss of 2d6 to armor pen. Trygons will probably have to make use of the Smash rule to compensate, which means they are less effective against enemy walkers. Rage but same boat as a carnifex (unless you upgrade to a Trygon prime then you loose feed/rage entirely)

    Mawlocs look mostly unchanged, I’ve never really viewed them as assault oriented but in that respect they’re in the same boat as trygons need to smash inorder to tackle vehicles effectively.

    Tyrannofex, to me he’s still a massive point sink. If someone is silly enough to assault the T-fex they’ll get a heavy surprise from the overwatch, and then hate life even more since because of his 2+ armor save since power weapons took a slight dive.

    Old One Eye is mostly unchanged, his higher Ld makes him less likely to rage but it’s still possible.

    Tyranid Special Codex rules:
    Synapse is still good for keeping control of your shooters and keeps your CC units in a fight if they are losing. I think I mentioned a couple times now that there is no more no retreat wounds for losing close combat while your fearless.

    Instinctive behavior if the unit has the Lurk type you’ll want to keep on trucking as you’ve done in the past (keep them in synapse control). If the unit has Feed though, you don’t really lose anything for not having them under synapse, instead you have a chance to gain more attacks because the rules for Rage have changed (doesn’t force you to move or assault anymore, instead gives you +2 attacks instead of just +1 for charging). Although if the unit is in Feed mode it still loses the ability to shoot; which for trygons and shooting carnifexes is a bad thing.

    Shadows in the Warp hasn’t changed, but it is worth noting that this is pretty damn good psychic defense because psychic hoods have been changed. Hoods can no only attempt to stop powers that target the hood wearer or any of his friends within 6 inches, rather than any power within their range, so a psychic hood cannot stop your tervigon from casting dominion or catalyst.

    Speaking of Catalyst, feel no pain has changed to work against any unsaved wound that does not cause Instant Death (so it works against AP1 and AP2 wounds), but FnP is only a 5+ now.

    Most Tyranid psychic powers target enemy units, luckily most also automatically hit, like hive tryant powers. Some bad news is that everything in 6th edition has a rule called “deny the witch” which lets them ignore a psychic power cast against them on a roll of a 6+, with bonuses available like if the unit resisting has a psyker in it.

    Tyranid bio weapon & biomorph changes for 6th edition:
    Adrenal Glands – furious charge only gives a S bonus now
    Boneswords didn’t really change, but that is worth noting as a good thing, because they still do not allow any armor save in close combat (as opposed to power weapons which are mostly AP3 now)
    Lashwhips are boss! Since they’re a “set value modifier” which overrides any other bonus like furious charge or nemesis force halberd’s +2 inititative. But if your lashwhip is butting heads with another “set value modifier” to initiative you roll off to see which set value takes effect (aka if howling banshees could be a problem)
    *Boneswords and/or Lashwhips make Tyranid Warriors and Shrikes very nice looking close combat units.

    Blast/Large blast weapons cannot snap shot or overwatch (i.e. venom cannons, barbed strangler, stranglethorn cannon, cluster spine, to name a few) but template weapons can fire overwatch, just not regular snap shot.

    Tyranids get no ally, which is a bummer, because that keeps us confined to our primary detachment force organization slots. Whereas any other codex can have allies who give them access to two more troops slots and one each from the HQ, elite, fast and heavy slots. Sure in 2K+ games we get a second primary detachment FOC, but does everyone else along with a second helping of that Ally FOC. A little more bad news is Tyranids cannot fully utilize the fortification detachments. According to our FAQ nids can’t fire gun emplacements like the heavy bolters on a bastion, not that many bugs have a great BS skill but being able to manually fire a battle field weapon would be nice especially since automated firing only shots at the closest target. Hopefully we’ll get our own special fortifications in a whitedwarf or downloadable content. Though I’m sure most opponents are not going to be pricks over the gun emplacement rule, it’s more that during tournaments or pickup games with a stranger that trying to push a house rule isn’t much fun or appropriate.

    Lastly the Tyranid Mycetic Spore. Still a damn fine unit option and creature, the possibility to overwatch might influence taking a second gun option, but not many opponents would assault a spore pod in the past so I doubt they’d do it now with 6th but who knows.

    Thanks for reading

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  2. #2
    Dougizzle's Avatar
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    Let me start by saying, i'm at work so cant read everything you wrote although my biggest annoyance about tyranid and 6th is the ally system. Having had my first peak at the new RB last night.. i noticed that Tyranid can't ally with anyone atall? Yet lets face it, there is harderly any restrictions as to what other armies can/can't ally with. As i see it this may cause huge rage on behlaf of tyranid players unless of course the new rules specifically benefit them a fair bit more than others. As you can imagine there is going to be some seriously OP lists now you can mix and match, and all the 12 year olds will be using those. Therfore making it unfair for nids that don't even get the choise to ally. The Fluff may not be suitable for tyranids and the ally system although there are plenty of other combinations that don't work fluff wise, so thats no excuse.

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  3. #3
    PyroSikTh's Avatar
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    Smash is actually a good thing for Carnifexes. While every other MC out there has to halve their attacks to stand a chance at wrecking vehicles, Carnifexes can go right in with their full amount, making them really nasty vehicle hunters.

    If the above post comes off with a negative tone, you're reading it wrong.
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  4. #4
    Who are you looking at ? commandojimbob's Avatar
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    Here are a load of My “positive” views on Tyranids in 6th and what they have gained :
    - Winged Tyrant and Harpies just got a major boost with “flying” and “Vector Strike”

    - Tyrant guard are now a genuine shield wall – good placement can keep these guys and the Tyrant alive longer than 5th.

    - Armoured Shell (2+ save) got a big boost with virtually all power based CC weapons coming down to AP3.

    - New psychic powers give Swarmlord and Tyrant some really nice buffs – facing some of the new powers really does benefit Nids

    - Preferred enemy now is really good, and makes sense now – Old adversary is very nice . Re-rolling 1’s to hit and wound in shooting or combat is very nice indeed

    - All MC’s getting Hammer of Wrath – very nice

    - Carnifexes are very nice now – not having to half attacks means they chuck LOTS of attacks and at S9, even AV14 should be fearful

    - Hull points BENEFITS Tyranids vastly – glancing to death in combat/shooting will help Tyranids a lot considering vehicles have always been one of their issues

    - Because of Hull Points, I think Adrenal Glands on bugs are a worth while investment – I personally always preferred Toxins (maybe more so) but Adrenal to get multiple rear armour glances will wreck a vehicle.

    - Don’t underestimate the change in fleet rules – compared to most other armies, Nids will have a better time with producing high charge ranges – granted a guaranteed 18” is nice, but this is a change that affects all.

    - Carnifex units again now nasty – keep rotating the wounded and they can really survive !

    - Toxin Sacs all boosted ! Make sense now on MC’s as it is now if greater S than T you re-roll to wound, not re-roll to wound on a given value. Stealers get a big buff here !!!

    - Rage as a +2 attack, you still in control – nice !!! It gives Nid gamers a choice – “UNLEASH THE BEASTS!!!”

    - Boneswords have become UBER Terminator killers – everyone thought they would be FAQ to AP3, people hoped AP2 but nope – Ignore Armour.

    - LASH WHIPS NOW OWN HALBERDS ! Yep read the FAQ – Boneswords and Lash whip Combo now makes sense pts wise

    - Shrikes/Gargoyles/Sky-Slashers now have Hammer of Wrath – use them right it is a good bonus especially as Shrikes could be killing a few nasties before combat happens

    - Venom Cannons boosted as no half strength any more – if it clips, it counts !

    - Reserve rolls reduced make Nid Reserve lists better – auto turn 4 is very useful !

    - Warriors also boosted with positional wound allocation – keep them rotating and you are good to go.

    - FnP change is actually a boost for Nids – for the most part cast it on MC’s and they are always getting a 5+ FnP – that is quite annoying considering you are firing AP1/2 weapons at them most of the time to try and take them down.


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  5. #5
    Beeva's Avatar
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    Some nice pointed there Sybrite. I wanted to make a similar thread but I don't have the rulebook yet (ordered it the other day as willpower gave in, I was going to wait for the starter box).

    From what you've written and what you've read I pretty much agree with everything.

    Carnifexes are better (when compared to other MCs) with their S9.

    Rage is a big deal for us now I think. We WANT our units to suffer from instinctive behavior! Hormas with 4 attacks on the charge is going to even the balance a bit when compared to other cheap CC units, like Ork boys.

    I'm not sure about the changes to assaulting with 2D6 random charge range and the changes to fleet. Maybe someone else is better at Mathammer than me but it sounds like we can't assault as far, which sucks.

    Overwatch worries me, the way I read it at the moment, any unit that gets charged automatically gets an overwatch round of shooting in as a bonus? That's definitely going to hinder CC orientated lists, which is what Nids did best. Who's brave enough to charge units of 30 Boyz now? Ok, that may be an extreme example but it still feels like a big nerf to Nids. Ok, our units got boosts to shooting just like everyone else but the problem is most armies do shooting better than Nids anyway.

    Venom Cannons (and more specifically heavy ones) are now better. No half strength with blast templates actually makes them viable anti-vehicle weapons. Although I think they get -2 on the vehicle damage chart? Still, better than they were.

    Stealers got shafted if they can't assault from reserve. When outflanking now you definitely have a round of shooting to endure before getting into assault, as well as overwatch to contend with and I believe there is now the rule whereby some units can take a bonus round of shooting against things arriving from reserve? Like Corteaz's rule but more common? Rending is still very nice though so I guess we just have to make sure they start on the board more often.

    As Jimbob said, Hullpoints work in our favour in most cases I think.

    Winged Tyrants and Harpies no look like must haves. Can't wait to try that one. Just wish GW would release that flippin model!

    Zoanthropes now look very cool indeed! The way I read that FAQ each model in a unit can replace their powers. Considering the fact that Warp Blast and Warp Lance are listed in the codex as separate powers that opens all sorts of doors without the need to necessarily lose out on your anti-tank. It's going to take a little work to examine how best to play these now but I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more of these in lists.

    Fliers are worrying me. I don't believe we have anything at all with the Skyfire rule? So our main defense against other Fliers is the Harpy or winged Tyrants? Even more reason to take them.

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  6. #6
    PyroSikTh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Beeva View Post
    Venom Cannons (and more specifically heavy ones) are now better. No half strength with blast templates actually makes them viable anti-vehicle weapons. Although I think they get -2 on the vehicle damage chart? Still, better than they were.
    Can never do better than Glance right? They don't get to roll on the Damage Table at all. Glancing hits are -1 Hull Point and nothing more. It's also worth noting that there are no minus modifiers to the Damage Table now.

    If the above post comes off with a negative tone, you're reading it wrong.
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  7. #7
    Beeva's Avatar
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    Not sure tbh, like I said, not read the rules myself. HVC are S9 now but I thought there was something about blasts being -1 on the damage table as well as the -1 to the damage table from the Venom Cannon profile.

    I may have that wrong.

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  8. #8
    Eryx_UK's Avatar
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    One of the rumours that proved not to be true was that Tyranids could ally with themselves and get extra slots. I am surprised that this wasn't the case as it made sense to me. And considering some of the silly ally match ups, wouldn't have broken the game.

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  9. #9
    PyroSikTh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Beeva View Post
    Not sure tbh, like I said, not read the rules myself. HVC are S9 now but I thought there was something about blasts being -1 on the damage table as well as the -1 to the damage table from the Venom Cannon profile.

    I may have that wrong.
    Just had a read through. It would only be a -1 on the Damage Chart, but Glancing shots are unaffected as they don't get a roll. I've read nothing about blasts being -1. I would say that's actually a little bit of a boost to the HVC in particular. It still takes away Hull Points like everything else, but it still can't wreck with a single shot. Instead if in penetrates it weakens the vehicle as well as applying another effect from shaking to immobilising.

    Originally Posted by Eryx_UK View Post
    One of the rumours that proved not to be true was that Tyranids could ally with themselves and get extra slots. I am surprised that this wasn't the case as it made sense to me. And considering some of the silly ally match ups, wouldn't have broken the game.
    Agree completely. I haven't seen anything in the rulebook that makes up for Tyranids lack of Allies. Being able to ally with themselves would've evened out the odds somewhat. It's a huge nerf to them, as if they needed it...

    If the above post comes off with a negative tone, you're reading it wrong.
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  10. #10
    Lord of the Pit Baragash's Avatar
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    Should have allowed IG allies and I'd happily allow it against me.

    As for Overwatch... people keep mentioning 30 Boyz...... well sure, if you're going to leave large enemy squads intact you reap what you sow, but I don't think it's a realistic in game example, if they're close enough to charge, they're close enough to have been a target priority in previous turns.

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  11. #11
    PyroSikTh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baragash View Post
    Should have allowed IG allies and I'd happily allow it against me.
    Just for the sakes of Genestealer Cults, even just as Desperate Allies, I would fully support IG allies to a Tyranid army.

    If the above post comes off with a negative tone, you're reading it wrong.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by PyroSikTh View Post
    Just had a read through. It would only be a -1 on the Damage Chart, but Glancing shots are unaffected as they don't get a roll. I've read nothing about blasts being -1. I would say that's actually a little bit of a boost to the HVC in particular. It still takes away Hull Points like everything else, but it still can't wreck with a single shot. Instead if in penetrates it weakens the vehicle as well as applying another effect from shaking to immobilising.
    Fair enough. A definite boost to what they were then.

    Originally Posted by Baragash View Post
    Should have allowed IG allies and I'd happily allow it against me.

    As for Overwatch... people keep mentioning 30 Boyz...... well sure, if you're going to leave large enemy squads intact you reap what you sow, but I don't think it's a realistic in game example, if they're close enough to charge, they're close enough to have been a target priority in previous turns.
    Yeah, Genestealer Cult would have been nice but I think GW is happy to forget about that bit of fluff history.

    As for 30 boys, I use that example because I do come across it a lot and I have plenty of issues trying to whittle those big units down as it is.

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  13. #13
    Who are you looking at ? commandojimbob's Avatar
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    Venom Cannons are still -1 on damage chart - but - this does not affect glances any more. So think of venom canons as a nice way to reduce hull points and if you get a pen, you get some extras with it.

    Flying Monstrous creatures can Vector Strike Flyers - ok so this would be S6, but that is not bad considering most flyers are AV10/11 with some AV12 - so you have a chance for free strikes.

    Genestealers not assaulting from outflank is a bit hard - but Genestealers work best as infiltrate. You cannot assault after infiltrate but it is so rare you could in the first place, it is not a big loss. I have faced many stealer shock lists and only once did a unit get into assault turn 1.

    Personally this whole genestealer cult thing is a non-sense !!! If GW had made Tyranids Allies with Imperial Guard - would people do genestealer cults ??? Of course not - they would take normal stuff and it would instantly be broken. What GW could do in the future is release Genestealer Cult rules in a WD - that would be more sensible.

    EDIT : As I mentioned in previous post, severing synapse from "feed" creatures could be a nice viable tactic - it would be almost like the Hivemind making a conscious decision to let its creations loose to cause havoc - a new viable tactic.

    Last edited by commandojimbob; 4th July 2012 at 12:35.

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  14. #14
    PyroSikTh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by commandojimbob View Post
    Personally this whole genestealer cult thing is a non-sense !!! If GW had made Tyranids Allies with Imperial Guard - would people do genestealer cults ??? Of course not - they would take normal stuff and it would instantly be broken. What GW could do in the future is release Genestealer Cult rules in a WD - that would be more sensible.
    More broken than...pretty much every other combination out there? They let IG and Chaos be Allies of Convenience for the sake of Traitor Guard, why not Genestealer Cults too?

    If the above post comes off with a negative tone, you're reading it wrong.
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  15. #15
    Who are you looking at ? commandojimbob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PyroSikTh View Post
    More broken than...pretty much every other combination out there? They let IG and Chaos be Allies of Convenience for the sake of Traitor Guard, why not Genestealer Cults too?
    There are many ways Chaos can indoctrinate a planet or system under its control - directly or covertly. I think Genestealer cults are far too specific for a generic application. I know there is a vast amount of people crying about this on the net, but I guess I just dont buy it ! It will be a nice WD set of rules !

    I know there are a number of loose Allies in the new book and there is an arguement that this would be one of those, I am just not in that camp.


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  16. #16
    Lord of the Pit Baragash's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PyroSikTh View Post
    More broken than...pretty much every other combination out there?
    ^This.

    When GW start writing the entire ruleset with the "but people might do crazy/broken/unfluffy" things, you'll have a point, and you can call me on 1-800-HELLS-IGLOO and tell when that day happens

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  17. #17

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    Originally Posted by Sybrite View Post

    Carnifexes have changed as noted with the basic changes of Monstrous Creatures. So to them the Smash special rule is garbage as ‘fexes are already S9 so doubling to a S10 isn’t worth losing half your attacks. Hammer of wrath is kinda cool as if Fear since it is free. Rage, though with Ld7 it’s a gamble that can’t quite be depended on, or if you have a shooty-fex you’ll want to avoid by sticking to synapse.
    Don't MC's get to re-roll armor pen? I thought I remember reading that.


    Originally Posted by PyroSikTh View Post
    Smash is actually a good thing for Carnifexes. While every other MC out there has to halve their attacks to stand a chance at wrecking vehicles, Carnifexes can go right in with their full amount, making them really nasty vehicle hunters.
    Yup. Plus, for the most heavily-armored tanks, all you have to do is glance it 4 times to wreck it.

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  18. #18
    Forum Sock Monkey scythes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by commandojimbob View Post
    There are many ways Chaos can indoctrinate a planet or system under its control - directly or covertly. I think Genestealer cults are far too specific for a generic application. I know there is a vast amount of people crying about this on the net, but I guess I just dont buy it ! It will be a nice WD set of rules !

    I know there are a number of loose Allies in the new book and there is an arguement that this would be one of those, I am just not in that camp.
    In a previous expansion, I wanna say it was Apocalypse, they were coming up with ideas as to why this army would ally with that army. They came up with something for Nids there, not so much allies but more the non-nid army was directing them into their enemies. This is backed up by fluff as Inquisitor Kryptman directed a hive fleet into a sector controlled by orks so the two would kill each other off. Why can't other armies do the same? GW either just doesn't much like Nids or maybe this is in preparation for making a nid codex as strong as something like GK, but I seriously doubt that.

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  19. #19

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    Tyranids have so many troop options and upgrade options do they really even need to have allies? Fill up one tyranids chart and start up another full chart,no need to fill a smaller chart(1 hq,elite,fats,heavy and 2 troops) with an ally. I believe nids will do just fine IMO.

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  20. #20
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    Well, one main tactic was to outflank stealers and assault things quick, that's gone. Every other army excepts Tyranids gets allies, so they all get a bonus that Nids don't get. They don't have anything melta, except zoanthropes warp blast that is such short range and takes so many rolls to get off it's really unpredictable. MC's used to be tank hunters, they still can, kind of, but not nearly as well as they could. Sure, they can be S10 but it costs half their attacks, and then they still need a 5 on one die to penetrate 14 armour whereas before with S6 they needed 9 on 2d6 with all their attacks to penetrate armour, much easier to do. Granted, flying MC's sound cool and all, but they're pretty pricey, as are all the other Nid MC's.

    It just seems like a lot of the nerfs were almost aimed at Nids to nerf them. Outflanking, not many other armies use them as much as stealers. MC's smash and armour pen, noone uses as many MC's as Nids. Allies, well, as I said before, Nids don't get them at all. You'd think GW doesn't like Nids. So, yeah, Nids will be ok but I seriously doubt they'll be competitive in 6th, not that they were in 5th, but even less so in 6th.

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