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  1. #1
    Ann's Avatar
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    Ann's 7th Edition Rules Questions

    I was thinking of running my husband's metal thunderfire cannon tonight, mainly because I haven't in a long time and so I've been digging into the rules to see what has changed with barrage. Much to my surprise the entire section where it explains about how barrage interacts with multi-level ruins, etc. seems to be gone. Is it in fact gone or am I simply not looking in the right place? I don't want to pull any accidental shenanigans tonight with my TFC.

    p.s. Looking at the artillery rules it appears they can move 6" and still fire at full BS? Seems too good to be true, like I'm missing something, lol, because if this is the case my big gunz/mek gunz goblins are going to love that.

    Last edited by Ann; 12th September 2014 at 17:21.
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  2. #2
    pattyobrien3's Avatar
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    Yeah.....this book is full of rules that exist because there's nothing contradicting them, even if there were things in 6th that did.

    The multi-level rule for blasts is one of them.

    Technically, yes, a blast template hits everything underneath it. So if you hit a 3-story ruin with a small blast, and there's 5 guys it covers on each level, you hit 15 guys. Technically.

    Personally, I think that's cheesy, nonsense, and unfair. If a blast is straddling levels and hits guys on different levels of the ruin (think an orb the size of the blast), I think that's reasonable, but being able to hit 5 guys on 3 floors with one template doesn't seem reasonable or fair, and I personally don't play that way. But, technically, yes you can, as far as I've ever been able to tell.

    The rule about moving and shooting with artillery is also gone, and I thought about that myself, but here's the trick - TFCs, along with most other artillery, are still a heavy weapon. If you've got a S&P / Relentless IC with the artillery (say, a big mek in mega armor with a kustom mega cannon battery), sure, you can move and shoot - otherwise, it's snap shots only, which means no shooting blasts.

    It's also worth noting that barrage weapons lost the pinning USR.

    Last edited by pattyobrien3; 11th September 2014 at 20:34.
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  3. #3
    pattyobrien3's Avatar
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    This, for example:

    ________A____
    ---------------|
    ---------------|__B___C__

    Lets say the small blast marker gets a direct hit on target B, and the blast also covers target A and C. In the previous edition, A would not be hit, as they were on a different level. In this edition, there's no such restriction, so all 3 should be hit.

    However,

    __A___B__C___
    |-----------------|
    |_D___E__F___|

    Lets say the blast hits target B again on a multi-level ruin. RAW, all targets are under the blast, so all should be hit, even if they're a foot apart vertically. But, again, I don't think this is a fair way to play.

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  4. #4

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    this is a huge change... in 6ed didn't a barrage weapon automatically only hit the top level of a structure?

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  5. #5
    Gorkagirl SonsOfStalingrad's Avatar
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    yup

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  6. #6
    pattyobrien3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by daddy4count View Post
    this is a huge change... in 6ed didn't a barrage weapon automatically only hit the top level of a structure?
    Not only that, but a hard roof over your head would shield you from barrage weapons entirely.

    Last edited by pattyobrien3; 11th September 2014 at 22:58.
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  7. #7
    The Truth Architech's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pattyobrien3 View Post
    Not only that, but a hard roof over your head would shield you from barrage weapons entirely.
    if you can kill a space marine or damage a tank's armor...a roof of some simple building isn't going to do anything

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  8. #8
    Catachan Trooper noneed2hate's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pattyobrien3 View Post
    Not only that, but a hard roof over your head would shield you from barrage weapons entirely.
    bunker busters will beg to differ

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    MalkThe2nd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Architech View Post
    if you can kill a space marine or damage a tank's armor...a roof of some simple building isn't going to do anything
    This. Personally I always hated having to choose one level. It basically made it so that any unit placed well on multiple levels was practically immune to templates of any kind. I especially hated when you nominate level 2 or higher and scatter, causing 0 damage to what's on the ground. Were all barrage air-burst before? That weapons makes no sense vs ground targets.

    Last edited by MalkThe2nd; 12th September 2014 at 00:17.
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    ...So what effect does this have on standard blast weapons, and things like the explosion when a C'tan dies?

    I've been playing that stuff as one level.

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    MalkThe2nd's Avatar
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    Hmmm never thought of that. I'd take a stab in the dark and say anything on his level or lower gets hit.

    Listen up! What we need is this! Yes, calcium! If we have enough calcium, we can do anything! Trouble with tests? Fighting with your parents? Some girl you like? Odiferous nethers? If you have enough calcium, all of these can be solved!
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  12. #12
    pattyobrien3's Avatar
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    I'd play it like explosion radius from a exploding vehicle - measure from his body in a sphere.

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    Not as fat as advertised Thatfatguy's Avatar
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    This... makes my TFC just redonkulous

    When you get a job you don't complete your challenge, when you don't complete your challenge you get punished.

    Damn you EB!
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    Originally Posted by pattyobrien3 View Post
    I'd play it like explosion radius from a exploding vehicle - measure from his body in a sphere.
    Can you point to where it says that for vehicles? That'd be pretty handy the next time my C'tan dies near a ruin.

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    Originally Posted by Thatfatguy View Post
    This... makes my TFC just redonkulous
    Yyyyyep. It's the single thing I most worry about dealing with Marines, and I consider it a minor victory if my Scarabs are getting barraged instead of my shooty troops.

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  16. #16
    pattyobrien3's Avatar
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    Well, the Explodes! result for vehicles just says that units within D6" of the vehicle take the hits. I would, personally, play that as 6" from all directions, including vertically, so if a vehicle was in ruins and units were deployed above it and were within D6", I'd say they'd be hit. Though I don't think I've ever had that come up.

    C'tan shard explosions are worded the same way, so I'd play them the same.

    I mean, explosions shouldn't be limited to two dimensions.

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    pattyobrien3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Changemod View Post
    Yyyyyep. It's the single thing I most worry about dealing with Marines, and I consider it a minor victory if my Scarabs are getting barraged instead of my shooty troops.
    Yeah, and wyverns are even worse. 4x barrage, shred + Twin linked, ignore cover, ap 6 base.

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  18. #18
    Ann's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pattyobrien3 View Post
    Technically, yes, a blast template hits everything underneath it. So if you hit a 3-story ruin with a small blast, and there's 5 guys it covers on each level, you hit 15 guys. Technically.

    Personally, I think that's cheesy, nonsense, and unfair....

    The rule about moving and shooting with artillery is also gone, and I thought about that myself, but here's the trick - TFCs, along with most other artillery, are still a heavy weapon. If you've got a S&P / Relentless IC with the artillery (say, a big mek in mega armor with a kustom mega cannon battery), sure, you can move and shoot - otherwise, it's snap shots only, which means no shooting blasts.

    It's also worth noting that barrage weapons lost the pinning USR.
    That is a good point about their being heavy weapons. Since they take a crewman to move each gun model, I'd imagine the crewman is physically moving the gun, whether by brute force in the case of grots or perhaps by the power of his mind in the case of an Eldar, or whatever. Either way, you'd need relentless. So a mega-armor big mek, as you say, or perhaps a space marine IC on a bike or in terminator armor for the TFC, if you want to go down that route.

    Yes, I try to avoid doing cheesy stuff that feels like an exploit to me -- especially with like-minded people who just want to have a relaxed game. But the thing is I do end up having a fair number of games with people who are very RAW-oriented, so I figure I should have a handle on how barrage weapons work RAW even if I don't use them to their current full potential in relaxed games. Such people are certainly going to shoot their TFC at me RAW and in such games I'll do the same back.

    I changed the title of this thread since I think I'm going to post all of my rules questions in one place for this edition and I don't want to clutter up my BR/painting thread with rules stuff. So on that note last night I played a game, which was a lot of fun, though we did have a question come up about controlling objectives: Can you control an objective if you are locked in combat?

    We were both inclined to say no because both my opponent and myself prefer to just make a quick ruling and then research it later. From what I saw you are indeed able to control an objective while locked with an opponent in combat, but it would only work if you have Objective Secured and your opponent didn't or your opponent was something that couldn't control an objective, such as a swarm.

    I also noticed that while vehicles can control objectives now, something that didn't occur to me until last night was that DT's for troops in my Combined Arms bound army also had objective secure. I used that fact to grab an objective away from my opponent's riptide last night by using my rhino, so I could play my objective card. I looked at the book later and what I saw in the rules about Objective Secured and DT's seemed to bear that out. Yet another reason to hate drop pods, I think. (I have nine of them, lol.)

    So, anyone know of anything in the BRB where being locked in combat makes it so you can't control objectives without any other factors being taken into account? Ditto with troop DT's having Objective Secured?

    EDIT:
    Originally Posted by pattyobrien3 View Post
    I mean, explosions shouldn't be limited to two dimensions.
    I agree!

    Last edited by Ann; 12th September 2014 at 17:53.
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  19. #19
    MalkThe2nd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pattyobrien3 View Post
    Yeah, and wyverns are even worse. 4x barrage, shred + Twin linked, ignore cover, ap 6 base.
    I keep telling my buddy to shove those damn lootas in a wagon. After last game he just might listen.

    Listen up! What we need is this! Yes, calcium! If we have enough calcium, we can do anything! Trouble with tests? Fighting with your parents? Some girl you like? Odiferous nethers? If you have enough calcium, all of these can be solved!
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  21. #20
    Not as fat as advertised Thatfatguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Changemod View Post
    Yyyyyep. It's the single thing I most worry about dealing with Marines, and I consider it a minor victory if my Scarabs are getting barraged instead of my shooty troops.
    I field two of them...

    which just went from Mean to downright evil

    When you get a job you don't complete your challenge, when you don't complete your challenge you get punished.

    Damn you EB!
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