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  1. #1
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    Age of Sigmar-an alternative idea....

    It's been a year since Age of Sigmar first came out, and it has (in my opinion) been the most controvesial and decisive decision that Games Workshop has ever done over the last 40 Years.

    I know some people are extremely devided over it still- some (myself included) are actually starting to come round to this whole new way of playing the game, whilst at the same time the other half of the gaming comunity are treating this like some kind of self-induced CAR CRASH on Games Workshop's behalf!

    Although I'm very slowing actually starting to enjoy the game somewhat now (both the rules and the background,to a certain extent), I've also been reading the general views of those gamers who are bitterly disapointed with it and actually trying to think up ways of where, if I was a Games Developer at GW H.Q I would have developed Age of Sigmar.

    And I think I've came up with an idea.

    When they introduced the current version of 40K they came up with the new idea of having TWO Force Organisations Charts to the game-There's the Standard Force Organistion Chart that's been used for years, where each Character/Unit/Vehicle falls into one of five catagories (H.Q, Elite, Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support), and your only allowed toa certain number of each of those catagories in your army (although one H.Q and two Troops are compulsory).

    The other was the brand -new 'Unbounded' concept, where you take whatever models you want in your force, in any combinations.

    I think for the first time G.W had created TWO methods of play for what is essentially the SAME game system.

    So here's my idea: Why not do the same thing to Warhammer that they did with 40K?

    My idea is that you could have the 'normal' standard rules for Warhammer, regarding Moving, Shooting, Magic, Psychology etc.
    But, at the same time you could have an 'alternative' army organisation instead,that uses all the rules that are currently being used but instead of using infantry models in a block shaped formation all models will use the Skirmish rule instead, using the 2" coherency of each other?

    That way the traditionist still get to use the tried-and-tested rules that have worked so well over the last 30 years, whilst those who want to try something slightly new can still play the game using the normal rules, but to add a bit of variation must deploy and move all infantry models using a 2" Skirmish formation (which is more-or-less what AoS uses now days).

    Before the game begins both players will have to decide which format they will play the game (Regiment formations or Skirmish formations) and will move their models apporopiatly, with all the rules for Shooting, Combat, Magic and Psychology still being used (very much like 40K, where you have to decide whether to use the 'standard' Force Organisation Chart or use Unbounded instead).
    The only differance between the two is that instead of forming regiments into blocks they just use the Skirmish rule instead for all models.

    That's it. In theory this ONE SINGLE addition to the rules could be just enough to inject a little something 'new' into the 30 year old game, just to spice it up a little bit.

    That is the first part of my idea. The second is the narrative history of the Old World and how that fantasy universe will unfold for all the races in it.

    I've already started writing out ideas for the new timeline of events in the history of the Old World (that takes it beyond the year 2525, which for some reason is where most of the Warhammer timeline seems to stop until recently), and if I'm honest, the 'fluff' that I'm thinking of in my head is quite LARGE and complex in scale, so it might take a some time to complete.

    I will start posting my new Warhammer timeline on here soon, in chapters has and when I write them in chlonological order of events.

    But for now I'd be interested in any feedback about my ideas for the 'two-tier' Warhammer game I've mentioned above.

    Last edited by Captain Jedathul; 27th May 2016 at 12:52.
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  3. #2
    Bacon Fondler Psychedelic Lictor's Avatar
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    Think GW have burned a number of bridges, and stubbornness and a sense of betrayal (right or wrong) will see a fair few not come back.

    However, to those that are making a stab of it, or just new players in general, I think it holds water. Though I think GW may already be moving in that direction. I don't think details have been released yet, but they have been hinting at three tiers of play: the most basic and rules lite version to keep pulling in new players, and then adding layers of complexity with points values etc coming into play in one (or both? tiers above it). We shall see, but I'm very interested in what fluff you have in mind. For me personally, I think the AoS fluff is awful. Don't need it to get into a gaming system, but it works to get me invested in an army and its outlook. So like I said, inquisitive about what you have in store.

    Ham and eggs: a day's work for a chicken; a lifetime's commitment for a pig.
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  4. #3
    BrokenWing's Avatar
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    It's a nice idea and what I expected when Age of Sigmar came out...but they didn't do it and now it's too late. My group came up with our own version of 9th edition that we've beta tested pretty heavily and works well for us. Not only that but our games are infinitely faster because we switched to an alternating phases style of play that quite frankly, makes most of us not want to go back to a you go I go system anyway.

    Is our edition a combination of ideas taken from various places? Oh yeah (we took formations from Avatars of War, modified of course, we also made an orders system inspired by Avatars of War, we played around with the magic phase until we eventually just settled on an alternating phases system and wizards that pick their spells before the game, introduced our previous house rule of 'stead fast checks' that could break those annoying steadfast units with smaller units of things like cavalry...and so on) but so what? It's not a work of art, but it works pretty well and we're now in the process of finalizing the system and then updating army books.

    Would we have done this if GW initially took your suggestion? No.

    Will we abandon this because GW has now figured out that your suggestion is the route they should have taken? NO, because the bridge is both already burned and replaced.

    My biggest problem, the one thing that kept me from caring about Age of Sigmar at all (weird fluff and poor rules aside) as the total lack of unit diversity and the ability to modify characters to your own liking in any meaningful way. In one fell swoop GW destroyed everything I'd worked on in terms of fluff and characters designed with specific roles (that fit their fluff) and behaviors in mind with the release of a single rules set. That, above anything, keeps me from touching their game with a three thousand foot pole. GW didn't respect their own creativity, let alone anyone else's and now that they've figured some of that out over a year later, people they made angry have already moved on and enjoy systems they are using now. I don't think they can win most people like me and my group back, because they've already gone to something else and presumably enjoy it.

    It is very easy to lose a fan (even a die hard) it is very...very difficult to get them back a year later.

    "Do you often combat the darkness by turning off the lights?"- Seeker Komae questions someone's eagerness for war.

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  5. #4
    The Truth Architech's Avatar
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    I'm not going to read the other responses, as I have to get going here in a minute. But my first instinct on reading the '2 versions of the same game' is to say...that it's really not. And I couldn't care less that sigmar is the way forward or that whfb is 'ruined'...whatever...I have my armies and can play how I want, so I'm just going off how the games work and would coincide in similar formats.


    In 40k, literally the only thing that changed was the limit on 'classes' of units (as far as the issues your discussing). You don't play with different rules, you don't REALLY have a completely different number of models for completely different reasons. The entire core of whfb is the moving of block units and then going through the phases. Some of those phases and such are the same in sigmar...and yeah in general, dudes with swords are hitting other dudes with swords. But I don't think there's at all a 1:1 comparison of these situations that warrants the idea of them being two different versions of the same game in the way that unbound and FoC are just two options within the rules of a single game.


    That being said, just pick whether you wanna play 9th age, sigmar, 8th edition, or whatever else...and ask other people if they also want to play from time to time.

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  6. #5
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    I've started typing up the preliminary outline for my ideas.

    Having read through previous editions of the Warhammer Rulebook, various Armybooks and some Aos books I've been piecing together ideas has to where this overall narrative could be heading in my head.

    There are some ideas/concepts from the AoS background that I like, including the Stormcast Eternals, the inter-dimensional Realm-gates, Gorka-Morka the two-headed Orc God, and how there now seems to be a hierarchy of Dark Gods in the Realm of Chaos, with Khorne being at the top.

    I've including some of these concepts in my ideas, but even then some of them might not be exactly how you would imagine them to be, in regards to their original point of origin or indeed their primary function.

    Therefore, I thought I might put down a few hints of some of the things I've come up with so far:

    * Firstly, and most importantly, the world does NOT get BLOWN UP! Both the lands and the races that inhabit them go through some HUGE changes (both politically/culturally for the civilizations and geographically for the lands themselves), but what I had in mind was that, although there's going to be huge sweeping changes going on all over the Old World (many of them WILL have a PERMEANT effect on the timeline ) you could do it without having to physically tear the planet apart in the process.

    * Secondly, the timescale. Although AoS doesn't seem to give an exact date for events/setting it is genuinely implied that AEONS of time have passed, and that events cover thousands of years of time.
    What I'm doing is exploring what happens immediately after the events that occurred after the first half of the 26th Centaury (has anyone noticed how, in the previous editions of Warhammer all the timelines in all the Armybooks seemed to stop about 2525, during the war against Chaos?).

    I was thinking of what Gene Roddenberry did with Star Trek: The Next Generation-took the original concept and brought forward about a HUNDRED YEARS (not THOUSANDS like AoS, which some feel is a bit too far in scale) into the 'future', and seeing how the (literally) next generation of characters are living decades after the events of the original 60's show.

    That is why I've concentered on the 30-40 year period after the events of 2525, so that it details an entire generation that have been born and raised after the world-wide war, and seeing how the Old World is during the mid-26th Century.

    * At least FOUR well know Special Characters that everybody knows are going to DIE! (and I really do mean DIE! They are not coming back at all! ).
    However, there deaths will be quite dramatic (mostly in combat against a long-standing adversary of his/her race), and will have a profound effect on the races they belong to...

    * One other Special Character (a 'leader' in their race) will go through a massive change, not just physically but also emotionally, mentally and even spiritually, and again this will completely change how his/her subjects will perceive them from now on (will it be a blessing or a curse? In the long run will just have to see...).

    * Four major lands in the Old World will go through such a massive political/cultural upheaval internally that they are changed forever.
    Although the racial 'essence' of the races living in those lands will remain for the people still there, the political borders with be physically alternated-some borders will expand into other territories, others will retract inwards...

    * And two more lands are going to be so catastrophically ravaged by a massive cataclysm they are effective wiped clean of the face of the planet! (Not literally mind you. But they will be devastated beyond recognition has we saw them before).
    It also means that one very-distinct geographical feature will be destroyed in the process too.
    The few that survive in those lands are now part of a dying race...

    * The centauries old generational alliance between Dwarves and Man will completely deteriorate has the result of one leaders well-meaning but thoughtless actions.
    Although there will be no out-right conflict between the two races the (unintentional) actions of this leader meant the usually unforgiving Dwarves took this has something of a personal insult.
    Needles to say, the age-old alliance between Dwarves and Man, although unbroken, does become VERY strained forever more...


    * 30-40 years after the Storm of Chaos in 2525, Chaos WILL launch another invasion-but this time the nature of the invasion will be a little different.

    In the past Chaos invasions usually meant a huge army of Mortals/Daemons/Beasts marching South from the Chaos Wastes and attacking Kislev, the Empire etc.

    Well after 30-40 years of thinking, the Dark Gods have come up with a new plan, which is somewhat different to the usual Chaos invasions that occur every few hundred years in the past.

    Firstly, only THREE of the Chaos Gods will be united on this new mid-26th Centaury invasion. The fourth will lead his Daemon legions on a different agenda...

    The second reason is that, unlike most previous invasions, this one will not be coming from the Northern Wastes, and will originate elsewhere in the world...

    That's it for now. I'm hoping to get the first part typed up on here within the next few days.

    Last edited by Captain Jedathul; 30th May 2016 at 14:16.
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  7. #6
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    I've just posted the first installment of the narrative storyline for my idea of an alternative to the Warhammer: End Times/Age of Sigmar background, in the Warhammer Fantasy section.

    It's an ongoing work, and I don't know has yet how many parts there's going to be, but I thought it might entertain some people.

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  9. #7
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    I've nearly finished working on the second part of my Age of Sigmar storyline, this time concentrating on the Dwarves and what happened to them during the Storm Of Chaos.
    If I'm honest, I am struggling a little bit with this. I have a general idea of what I want it to be, but whenever I start typing it doesn't really feel quite right for some reason, which is why it's taken slightly longer then I thought.

    I might get it done within the next few days (I hope).

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  10. #8
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    I've finished the second part of my Age of Sigmar storyline.

    However, it is MUCH longer then I planned for it to be.

    In fact, it's ended up becoming so long that I've decided to break it up into two parts, so what I originally intended to be part 2 is now going to be part 2 and part 3 now.

    I'm going to post it now.

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  11. #9
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    Right, for those of you who are still with me on this I'm now on verge of finishing the latest instalment of my somewhat unexpectedly epic storyline.

    The part I'm working on now contains references to both Kislev and Tilea and the Borderlands, has part of the 'The Grand Plan' that was mentioned in the last part.

    Unfortunately, I don't have that much material on me regarding both those lands (apart from the few paragraphs in the old rulebooks and such), so I had to spend a while doing a bit of cultural/historical research online about Kislev and Tilea.

    If I'm honest, I didn't think it would take this long to get to where I want it to go!

    In my mind I think it could take me about another 9 parts of the story to complete it, thus having about 12 parts in total (including what I've already published on here).

    This, I warn you, could take me literally weeks to do, so for those of you still following it please be patient.

    I'll try and publish the new instalment tomorrow, and after that I'll try and do it on a weekly basis.

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  12. #10
    Captain Jedathul's Avatar
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    Sorry about the long wait for the latest part of the story. I was hoping to have posted it DAYS ago, but unfortunately lots of work-related stuff has cropped up, and I've had to put it to one side a bit to deal with my work schedule.

    At the moment it's about 70-80% there, and (I hope) it will reveal the first (chronologically) one of the SIX major changes that I had planned for the overall storyline.

    This latest part deals with the first BIG change in the Old World, so it will be published ASAP.

    Hopefully I might get it on here in the next few days (if I'm lucky...).

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