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  1. #1
    lolman1c's Avatar
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    How are we liking 8th edition?

    I haven't played any games yet but I saw a few. They looked fun and great but I can't help but recall all the sad faces from this weekend. A 30+ year old man who basically acted like a child, is one example, when his units got one shot killed by a land raider. He cried "That's too much damage! That's unfair! Nothing should do that much damage" while talking about one of the largest most powerful vehicles in the Marines army... I personally saw this a lot, people just put their troops in front of death machines and basically went into tears shouting it was unfair when they died. I personally believed they 1. acted childish. 2. Used 7th edition lists despite me seeing the models that could counter their opponent (who obviously put thought into their 8th ed list and grabbed the correct units) in their boxes. 3. Played in a 7th edition style. They put no effort into thinking about where they should move or who should be in cover and just expected their +3 amour save to keep them alive while they stood in the centre of the battlefield. It really annoyed me watching people throw their troops away and then cry the new edition was unbalanced and unfair (because space wolves, 10 squad marines or a group of 10 orks couldn't take down a land raider). I even saw one guy laugh and this guys flyer army saying "Flyers are week! I can take down anything now!" then getting obliterated by the flyers many shots and then shouting they were OP (because again, his 10 man squad of just bolt guns couldn't take it down). People think their army is too powerful now and don't think about tactics or anything else... What are your thoughts from your games? (this is just my personal opinion from the games I saw over the weekend).

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  3. #2
    ultramar!!!!'s Avatar
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    I haven't seen any games yet, but those comments seem to apply to most new rule sets, just less so. I remember when Melta became the new big thing and everyone was loosing all their armour to a single dude with the right gun. This mindset should fade as people get used to the new edition

    That said I've read over the rules in preparation for my first games and it looks like they have done good on streamlining the rules without making it too simple. Now we just have to see how balanced it is in the long run

    One thing I do like is the rules seem to have moved from meta-tactics to in-game tactics. 8th seems to have more of an emphasis to where exactly the models are, previously you just had to make sure you were in range, now you have to check which is the closest unit to each enemy. Flanking your enemy might now let you shoot at an unprotected character unless your opponent has left more units behind to cover for that. Just seems like more thought is required all around really. It will be interesting to see how this edition settles

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  5. #3
    Ann's Avatar
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    I haven't played a game of 8th yet, though I did pick up the boxed set and the various indices for the armies I play. After reading through them I have to say that so far for the most part I'm pleased with what I've read, though I had a lot of fun with 7th as well. There are a few things I don't like of course, and some things I really like a lot. So far as the latter goes, I really like how they got rid of the dynamic where you could lose a big piece like a land raider to a single lucky lascannon shot, etc. I didn't find doing that to my opponent particularly fun and I especially didn't like being on the receiving end of it. So now if you want to kill my big stuff you are going to have to dedicate some firepower or swords and axes to doing so and not hope for a lucky shot. I also really like how they made walkers and monstrous creatures use the same mechanic (toughness) now, which is related to the above.

    Another thing I also really like is that every model I own is still usable in games and none of them look like their rules are truly awful for what they cost. I'm glad GW seems to have kept their promise there.

    Like alternating setting up units as opposed to setting up your whole army before your opponent sets up his. I'd like to eventually see something like with Bolt Action where you have some form of unit activation that isn't I Go You Go. What they are doing with charges is a step in that direction, so I like it. Also like command points and stratagems.

    I love that the game seems like it will require more terrain now. I don't care too much about terrain from an advantage standpoint, but I do like a pretty board with lots of terrain so I'm glad people who don't care or want a bare board to advantage their army that hasn't needed terrain the past will probably want more terrain now as well.

    I imagine that my first games of 8th will be in the style of 7th in many ways and my first lists will probably be to port over my lists from 7th, but I hope that I won't cry and act like a baby if and when I lose or my guys get killed, lol. Honestly though, I've noticed that grown men acting like babies is not uncommon in gaming in general, though I've seen more of it in 40K than I have in historicals or board games. The worst episodes I've come across though have been in rpg's, but I digress. As long as people don't get too histrionic about it then for my part I cut people who do that some slack unless they do it all the time, since I'm not a perfect person all the time either.

    Last edited by Ann; 20th June 2017 at 19:07.
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  6. #4
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    I didn't play much of the last editions.

    I play Salamanders, and I think Chapter Tactics is gone and I only get fluffy bonuses if I am within 6" of Vulkan... is this correct?? If so, I hope this gets corrected when they do proper Codexes, otherwise my list won't be as thematic, as GW wants/expects

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  8. #5
    Ann's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red Devil View Post
    I play Salamanders, and I think Chapter Tactics is gone and I only get fluffy bonuses if I am within 6" of Vulkan... is this correct?? If so, I hope this gets corrected when they do proper Codexes, otherwise my list won't be as thematic, as GW wants/expects
    Yes, it appears you are correct.

    It looks to me that you'd get the buffs that the standard HQ's give if you choose them as Salamander HQ's to buff Salamander units, if you don't want to run Vulkan all the time. In general the command buff of the various HQ's is 6" so it seems that having more than one HQ could be useful like a Captain and a Lieutenant, etc. in addition to the formations which require more than one HQ to unlock their command point bonuses for battle forged armies.

    I'm also really liking that the defender gets to choose what models die rather than the fiddly dance we used to have to do where it was closest with the cumbersome Look Out Sir, etc. Also like the idea of commanders handing out buffs in a limited radius, which makes for possibly more tactical play.

    Am greatly looking forward to trying 8th. It might end up being a gateway toward me at least trying out Age of Sigmar, since much of the painting I've been doing lately has been daemons.

    Last edited by Ann; 21st June 2017 at 21:58.
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  9. #6
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    I started late in 3rd edition (2003), and played a lot of 4th and 5th. I stopped within a few months of 6th dropping, and came back for maybe 7 months of 7th after the Blood Angels got a new codex. 8th is the first time I've been excited for an edition change since 5th, and it has not disappointed so far. I've only gotten a couple of games in, but I've watched all of WarhammerTV's twitch coverage of 8th.

    And all I can say is I'm positively happy with it so far. I'm excited to play my Orks, whom I've been collecting for 6 years but have never played before. I'm honestly pouring over the index, and I can't think of a unit I won't want and will use. I've started working on what list I want to take to the SoCal Open in October, since I am a slow painter, and I think through 5 drafts, I've used basically every unit available to da boyz. I had some reservations about a few things, like the loss of armor facing on vehicles, but I think the grand total of 8th is a positive change, and the things I miss aren't dragging down the good things.

    I'm not very excited by the new fluff, but I was always on the side of not advancing the story (cause 40k isn't a story to me, it's a setting).

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  11. #7
    Morr's Avatar
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    Positives:

    Nice slick rules and a chance to rebalance the codecies(fingers crossed they haven't made a hash of it)

    Negatives:

    "The game you asked for" strapline. Seriously, no what I asked for was not an 8 page rule set, newer chunkier marines, or army special rules being stripped out.

    Honestly they really pushed the "rules behind the fluff" line and then just stripped out anything remotely fluffy.

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  12. #8
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    The game is genuinely good. I like that it's only 8 pages of rules. So much quicker, and slicker, and easier.

    I'm not enjoying the blandness of the armies now, but, I think I can see where they're going with it.

    Marines are basically all vanilla now, but firstly that gives us an opportunity to try the other flavours out before the proper codexs arrive, and secondly, it needed doing. Most of the rules bloat was caused by an ever expanding array of marines.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with guard. I've got a suspicion we might be getting some old regiments back.

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  14. #9
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    I spent launch weekend playing with friends, and got 4 games in of 500-1000pts each. So far, I love it compared to 6th/7th. I jumped from 2nd edition to 5th, played a lot of 5th, including tourneys, and then dipped in and out of 6th before only playing a single game, maybe two of 7th. Things I've noticed:

    1) By coincidence, my small, elite armies are all more expensive than they were before. In particular, it's really hard to make a Deathwing/Ravenwing army with things that amount to any of the detachments that give Command Point bonuses at 1500pts or less.

    2) Having said that, things are pretty much worth the new points in this edition. My Land Raider Crusader accounted for probably half of an opponent's 1k point Slaaneshi Daemon army... And that's with me forgetting that I could rapid-fire the Hurricane Bolters when they got closer.

    3) Assault is high-risk, high-reward, but using it as a tool to lock out enemy shooting is extremely viable with the right kinds of matchups. In particular, the new vehicle assault rules are frankly a total pain in the neck if a large enough mob of enemies drags your vehicle into an assault as part of assaulting another unit (with either their 3" Pile In or 3" Consolidation move). On that note, The above is a sneaky as hell way of avoiding Overwatch fire from things that would usually do lots of damage.

    4) While not exactly [X]Stars, I expect to see lots of armies based around a character who grants rerolls within a bubble radius. I ran a hell of a lot of Dark Angels plasma fire with a Captain allowing them to reroll 1's, for example. Combined with synergistic things like the way a Devastator Sgt can now prevent a model from suffering death-by-Plasma Supercharge with a +1 to hit modifier, those "free" rerolls can make or break a game, and help save your Command Points for bigger and better things.

    5) Following from the above, part of me wonders if we'll see more of characters who allow blanket rerolls rather than just rolls of 1. I'm genuinely wondering, as they are relatively pricy, and in general there aren't many things that seem to be auto-includes in most army lists that I have looked into so far. Except for...

    6) I expect to see a LOT of Vindicare Assassins. With the way that even generic characters now throw around lots of buffs to friendlies, their ability to relatively reliably target and put down enemy characters at long range makes them crazy good for 90 points, even if only as a fire magnet. They aren't as good against Vehicles as they used to be, or high toughness monsters, but against Infantry Characters they are excellent. Likewise, I expect lots of people who have access to cheap(ish) Snipers (SM Scouts, Ratlings, and the special weapons in Skitaari units) to bring those to the party for the same reason.

    7) Movement is now probably the most crucial part of the game. It's not like it wasn't important before, but as various friends of mine have told me, and I now agree, how you deploy and move your troops are the most strategic & tactical parts of the game respectively. On a semi-related note, I feel like LOS-blocking terrain matters even more than it did in earlier editions... Especially with how one can theoretically avoid Overwatch fire by charging around corners.

    The game feels a lot more streamlined vs 6 and 7th, but despite what feels like a genuine effort to keep the rules clearly worded and concise, a few things are worded in less-than-helpful ways. Things like whether Markerlights allow friendly Tau units to hit at regular BS when making Overwatch fire, and what exactly the Forge World Character Tyberos's area-effect buff effects are two examples off the top of my head where if you read it carefully it's fairly clear what was intended, but there's enough ambiguity left to cause a debate.

    Overall, I loved the hell out of the games I played and am definitely looking forward to more. I want to try more and more lists to throw things at the wall and see what sticks...

    Last edited by glaug; 22nd June 2017 at 01:43.
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  16. #10
    Gorkagirl SonsOfStalingrad's Avatar
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    I've seen a few points of ambiguity. It runs fine. It'll take more than a week to get a concise opinion.

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  18. #11
    Ann's Avatar
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    One ambiguity I found with Chaos Daemons was with the Daemonic Ritual rule, which allows daemon characters to summon more daemons. They've given this ability (as far as I can tell) to all daemon units, even units without a character such as bloodletters and horrors.

    I'm wondering why they gave DR to units that apparently can't make use of it. Perhaps all daemons having it will matter down the road in a codex once the game expands? My first thought was maybe the upgrade character allows the unit to use the ability but that doesn't appear to be the case. I looked to see if I could find someplace where it says that the upgrade characters are Characters, and it appears they are not as far as I can tell.

    Last edited by Ann; 22nd June 2017 at 15:02.
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  19. #12
    Tahaal's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ann View Post
    One ambiguity I found with Chaos Daemons was with the Daemonic Ritual rule, which allows daemon characters to summon more daemons. They've given this ability (as far as I can tell) to all daemon units, even units without a character such as bloodletters and horrors.

    I'm wondering why they gave DR to units that apparently can't make use of it. Perhaps all daemons having it will matter down the road in a codex once the game expands? My first thought was maybe the upgrade character allows the unit to use the ability but that doesn't appear to be the case. I looked to see if I could find someplace where it says that the upgrade characters are Characters, and it appears they are not as far as I can tell.
    I believe Daemonic Ritual is signifies what unit can be summoned, not who can summon.

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  21. #13
    Come On, Brofist yWizePapaSmurfy's Avatar
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    I haven't got a game in yet so take with grain of salt -

    Looks smoother, I will miss the different templates and dice but the former caused the game to slow down and the latter is probably a move to make the game more accessible. Ok

    Variety of ways to play - Great, I even like Shadow Wars (Kill Teams), so this is a big boon. Hell, since we're basically starting over my friends and I are using Power Levels, and I don't think too many people are doing Points yet, but the points values definitely need tuning - Why would I pay premium for something that's better on one platform and sucky on another? (Case in point, Talos still has to pay 25 points a pop for a Heat Lance, that's 50 points for 2 BS 4+ (So hitting with one and might get a sucky D6 roll after that if not in 1/2 range? Wat?)

    Faster - Definite plus no longer have to spend all day playing 1 game.

    Detachments and Command Points - Definitely will have to follow a limit of some kind here, otherwise 4+ Detachment armies will remind me of why I hated 7E, and maybe amend Command Points to limit what they can re-roll a *smidge* would be nice.

    Still hate that "newest model wins" syndrome is still lingering here, though I *am* trying models I had but never bothered to *cough Mandrakes cough*

    I mainly dislike the removal of the vast majority of tactical choices - manuevering to get side armour, no point. No bonus for charging a tank to represent it's weakness to numbers (so you can't really attack down a Predator anymore outside shooting unless you have 3+ Fist equivalents?

    ~0.02 so far, nice seeing you all. Will show my progress on repainting and building my forces soon.

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  22. #14
    The only Forum Zombie Angelofblades's Avatar
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    Greetings Peasants!! You're supreme overlord has returned with news from the front!

    First off, I'd like to say that 8th is great. We've made 40k great again. I've had a few games under my belt against a few various factions - sadly not all - but we've stressed the game to see just how far it can be taken. Here's a few of good, the bad, the ugly. ( All games played under Matched Play rules set)

    The Good:

    Once you get a grip of the rules, all the rules, not just the core rules, it goes by really fast. There's not a lot of room to argue about the interpretation of the rules. In a lot of cases, it's simply "them's the rules."

    Not a lot to almost 0 death stars. It kinda can be done, but they're not as death-star-ey as they were before. A lot of it has to do with how psychic power work now.

    Everything is viable! well...almost everything. Quite a few units were scaled back and in the meta, this almost makes them not worth taking, while others got great. Here's an example: Thunderfire Cannons Vs Whirlwinds. Pre-8th, no one ever took whirlwinds, TFC's were where it was at. Now, Vengeance Whirlwinds are cheaper than TFC's and better!

    Simplification of pre-game book keeping.

    There are a lot of concepts from pre-8th that we have to let go of. Examples; Charging only what you shot at; S10 ceiling; shooting with every weapon you have; charging into friendly units to get within 1" of an enemy model; -1 to hit modifiers for units that we normally didn't have to take "To Hit," modifiers on.

    You don't have to completely wipe out a unit to fully destroy it. Just kill enough, morale will take care of the rest.

    There's more, but that's all I can think of right now

    The Bad:

    Army building: Tedious. There is a feeling that GW deliberately made points building clunky and onerous to push this Power levels agenda. The contrast between the two is startling. You can whip up a 100PL in no time, but the equivalent ( between 1900-2000 pts) will take quite a bit manually.

    Power levels can be terribly abused.

    The Ugly:

    Tau are ridiculous. They have an upper hand on something that can be taken advantage of.

    There's a premise on a Daemons list that has seen some action and we're still trying to figure out how to deal with it.

    A form of 5th ed IG Leafblower is back ...
    Include manticores - lots of them

    Overall as it stands - 8th is pretty solid - what worries me is what things will look like when they start releasing codexes.

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  23. #15
    Ann's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tahaal View Post
    I believe Daemonic Ritual is signifies what unit can be summoned, not who can summon.
    I fixated on the part where it says the summoned unit as to have the Daemon keyword, and didn't pay as much attention to the parts further along. I do believe you are right and that explains the prevalence of the DR rule. Thanks.

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  24. #16
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    I like that in matched play summoned units have to be paid for. Instant balance right there!

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  26. #17
    Come On, Brofist yWizePapaSmurfy's Avatar
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    AngelofBlades - tau abusing wound allocation like freaks of nature is what you are alluding too right? Dislike it as well

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  27. #18
    The only Forum Zombie Angelofblades's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yWizePapaSmurfy View Post
    AngelofBlades - tau abusing wound allocation like freaks of nature is what you are alluding too right? Dislike it as well
    Take 2 outrider detachments max gun drones, and a bunch of commanders + Coldstar commanders, another outrider with pathfinder units, basic battalion w/ firewarriors and then the supreme command detachment and your done. Load each of the commanders w/ ATS, Missile pods and none of your non drone units can ever be touched. They have to eat through 72 drones - you could do more...without breaking a sweat and I'm nowhere near 2k points

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  28. #19
    Nuts. edmundblack's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Angelofblades View Post
    You're supreme overlord
    *your

    (I just liked the juxtaposition of the spelling error with "supreme overlord" too much to resist. ) *huggles AoB* Good to see ya buddy. And smurfy too! It's like Christmas. Only I'm melting, not the non-existent snow we get in the Old Country.


    Annnnyway:

    Not played yet. Hope too soon. Bit wary about costings for IG tanks, they seem a little high to me, but all in all I'm looking forward to it. Have to bare in mind that this is the great reset of the rules. Any additional depth and individuality will (hopefully) come along later. At the moment, all the armies are a bit bland and samey to be honest (Space Marines are Space Marines, Craftworlds don't exist and so on), but thankfully there's enough variance from one faction to another initially that there still remains that variety. And with more units being more viable or interesting to take, hopefully there will be more things seen being used. Which will be great.

    And that Tau jizz sounds as much fun as facing the all MC Rapetide pile of meat. Yaaaay.

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  29. #20
    Dark Lord Foamy's Avatar
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    Had a couple of games so far 1 with my Tyranids and another with my Orks vs a mate who plays Space Wolves.

    The Tyranids I am loving. Genestealers have always been my favourite unit and the invul save from the Genestealer Cult being added to them here as well as the increased movement to 8 has made them a lot quicker. In fact my Tyranid list at the moment is looking very similar to how my old 4th ed one looked. Death Leaper is a great character assassin now as well.

    For the Orks well the 21st Deathskull Artillery division is still strong but GW has managed to make my favorite Ork weapon of all time the Shokk Attack Gun really boring and not that useful. Hoping the Ork codex when it comes resolves that but for now the meks are Kustom Force Field meks. Rest of the guns are doing fine though and the grots dangerous in large numbers rule continues to amuse me.

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