Storm Guardians - Why do people think they're bad?

[DCB]

I've heard bad comments about storm guardians on this forum, but personally, though I have never played with them, I can't see why they're bad.

They are pretty cheap. Half the price of a tactical space marine
They have shuriken pistols and CCW's - 3 attacks on the charge each
2 flamers can be taken in a squad
A warlock can be taken with the squad. Destructor or enhance would be very effective imo

So fill me in. Why don't people like them?

[yWizePapaSmurfy]

Strength 3, Toughness 3, 5+ Saves

[The_Peacemaker]

I've heard bad comments about storm guardians on this forum, but personally, though I have never played with them, I can't see why they're bad.

They are pretty cheap. Half the price of a tactical space marine
They have shuriken pistols and CCW's - 3 attacks on the charge each
2 flamers can be taken in a squad
A warlock can be taken with the squad. Destructor or enhance would be very effective imo

So fill me in. Why don't people like them?

you've heard bad things on this forum? about storm guardians?

.... in the threads I've read there may be people saying they are bad but then there are always people saying how good they are for the reasons you stated.

They are good. The only problem occurs when you take a 10man squad with enhance. If you break down the points you might as well just take Striking scorpions.
They are a good unit. Its just you have to take a small squad in a waveserpent, or take a big squad of 20. Not alot of in betweens.

[Tarion'Maseth]

I've heard bad comments about storm guardians on this forum, but personally, though I have never played with them, I can't see why they're bad.

They are pretty cheap. Half the price of a tactical space marine
They have shuriken pistols and CCW's - 3 attacks on the charge each
2 flamers can be taken in a squad
A warlock can be taken with the squad. Destructor or enhance would be very effective imo

So fill me in. Why don't people like them?

you've heard bad things on this forum? about storm guardians?

.... in the threads I've read there may be people saying they are bad but then there are always people saying how good they are for the reasons you stated.

They are good. The only problem occurs when you take a 10man squad with enhance. If you break down the points you might as well just take Striking scorpions.
They are a good unit. Its just you have to take a small squad in a waveserpent, or take a big squad of 20. Not alot of in betweens.

Good points. The advantages they have over Scorps come in taking down big units. Of anything, really. The Flamers mean that the more they attack, the more they kill.

Strength 3, Toughness 3, 5+ Saves

The same can be said of DE, considered one of the nastiest armies in the game.

[Phail]

the reason i don't like them is because tehre are far better choices available

Cost of a Storm Guardian - 8 pts

Cost of a Striking Scorpion - 16pts

Cost of a Howling Banshee - 16pts


Ok, so scorps are twice the cost. Now lets look at how much better they are:
- higher initiative
- more attacks due to Mandiblasters
- higher WS and BS
- 3+ armour save as opposed to 5+
- higher leadership
- higher strength
- plasma grenades

The Leader upgrades are also miles better for the scorps


Banshees are also twice the cost. They benefit from
- higher initiative
- I 10 in the first round of every combat
- higher WS and BS
- 4+ save as opposed to 5+
- POWER WEAPONS!!
- higher Ld

again, better leader upgrades



basically there are far better options available than storm guardians so take the aspect choice instead

[Fce Cmmr Sangre]

Guys, they're Eldar. No unit is the be-all and end-all of units, and the Guardians (of both types) provide something no other Eldar unit can provide: numbers.

[Phail]

pfft who needs numbers

[DCB]

With a walock with enhance though you get only 1 less ws and the same iniative, and the strength is actually the same as scorpions. Ok there are some other disadvantages but think of it this way: you are using them for combat. 10 scorpions and an exarch with chainsabres 177

warlock with enhance, 16 storm guardians and 2 flamers 180

guardians have fleet of foot, and on the charge they will get in 15 shuriken pistol shots and 2 flamer templates before 46 guardian attacks and 2 witchblade attacks

scorpions don't have fleet of foot, and for the price of shadowstrike another 2 guardians could be taken. 9 shuriken pistol shots and one tl shot followed by 31 attacks.

I know which I'd choose

[Phail]

With a walock with enhance though you get only 1 less ws and the same iniative, and the strength is actually the same as scorpions. Ok there are some other disadvantages but think of it this way: you are using them for combat. 10 scorpions and an exarch with chainsabres 177

warlock with enhance, 16 storm guardians and 2 flamers 180

guardians have fleet of foot, and on the charge they will get in 15 shuriken pistol shots and 2 flamer templates before 46 guardian attacks and 2 witchblade attacks

scorpions don't have fleet of foot, and for the price of shadowstrike another 2 guardians could be taken. 9 shuriken pistol shots and one tl shot followed by 31 attacks.

I know which I'd choose

WRONG scorpion chainswords which all scorpions have makes them S4

can someone mathhammer a 10 man scorpion squad with scorpions clawing exarch and then a 20 man storm guardian squad with witchblade warlock against a squad of 10 tactical marines with a power swording vet serg

would help, ty

[Tarion'Maseth]

10 Scorps, Exarch with Claw 187

17 Guardians, 2 Flamers
Enhance 'Lock 188

Closer match :wink:

Anyway Scorps first: 4 dead before the Marines get to attack (One shooting, 3 combat), they hit back, maybe killing one Scorp. Then the Exarch hits, killing another 2.

Now, the Guardians. Just over 1 dead from Shuriken fire, then 2 more dead from the Flamer (Rough guess, I can never tell how many you're going to cover on average), then 5 more in combat. The Marines hit back, killing one if they're very, very lucky.

Guardians kill 8, Scorps kill 6.


Versus 32 Gaunts Spinegaunts (This is my favourite )

Scorps kill 5 from shooting then 12 in combat.

Guardians kill 16 with shooting then 11 in combat.

EDIT: I ignored the Swording Vet, but as I'm sure you can imagine, it hurts the Scorps more than the Guardians.

[Phail]

wow, i did not expect it to come out like that...

and a similar one for banshees? (if you don't mind) ty

[DCB]

So storm guardians are worth it

Right, I'll fiddle my list at some point and will eventually get some storms (not for a while though). Would an avatar go well with them?

[Phail]

ugh, that doesn't mean storm guardians are worth it

if you insist on taking guardians then take the defender guardians i.e. shuriken catapults

and yes the avatar goes well with eldar because he makes local friendly units fearless, and he standa a chance against my GD

[Fce Cmmr Sangre]

Storm Guardians are phenomenal, even if only because your opponent will underestimate them. Plus, I'm not sure has been mentioned, they're troops and therefore can contest objectives.

[Phail]

Storm Guardians are phenomenal, even if only because your opponent will underestimate them. Plus, I'm not sure has been mentioned, they're troops and therefore can contest objectives.

you mean capture objectives

any unit can contest them


Storm Guardians still die easily though

[DCB]

if you insist on taking guardians then take the defender guardians i.e. shuriken catapults

I think taking both would be a good idea personally

[tone.tran]

Problem is getting 17 Guardians into combat unscathed is pretty tough. 10 Scorps can jump out of a waveserpent still. But again, Guardians have fleet
Banshees against Marines about 1 dead in shooting and about 6 in combat if you give exarch an executioner.

So Banshees get a 7 to Storm Guardians 8.

17 Defenders against MEQ. with shuriken cannon and enhance.
3 from shooting - 2 from combat.

[Tarion'Maseth]

10 Banshees w/ Mirror Sword Exarch

1 dead Marine from shooting, 5-6 killed in combat. Better than Scorps versus Marines, worse than Guardians. I can show what happens versus Gaunts if you really want :wink:

And I wouldn't recommend Defenders based on this info - It's the Flamers that are adding up the damage. Talking of which, do you know which squad will do comparable damage? 10 Fire Dragons, Exarch with Dragon's Breath Flamer and Crack Shot: 7 dead from shooting, further 1 dead in combat (8 total. Higher than the Scorps )


To be honest, all of this is making me doubt the efficiency of Scorpions and Banshees. Banshees are very good if you run into Terminators, but anything else? >_<


Sangre- Yeah, I forgot to mention objectives. Very handy

EDIT: Tone - Thanks for the maths. You beat me to it

[MGRockwell]

Avatar
Farseer (Doom, Runes of Warding)

20 Storm Guardians w/Warlock (2x Fusion Guns, Enhance)
20 Storm Guardians w/Warlock (2x Fusion Guns, Enhance)
20 Storm Guardians w/Warlock (2x Fusion Guns, Enhance)
20 Storm Guardians w/Warlock (2x Flamers, Enhance)
20 Storm Guardians w/Warlock (2x Flamers, Enhance)
20 Storm Guardians w/Warlock (2x Flamers, Enhance)

Fire Prism (Holofields)
Fire Prism (Holofields)
Fire Prism (Holofields)

2000 Points

This is why Storm Guardians aren't bad. The problem is when a highly specialist Eldar army adds in one unit of Storm Guardians unsupported. They'll be singled out and wiped out in a second. When they horde up and have Warlock/Avatar support they are fast and effective. Fire Prisms are so cheap they are also good shooty backup to draw fire off as well as wipe out some hard hitting targets while you're fleeting across the battlefield.

Now, who wants to buy (and assemble) these models for me?

[tone.tran]

Fire Dragons are the way to go. Though no more are the days where you could run 60 Fire Dragons in waveserpents If Craftworlds were still around I'd probably run a bunch of Dragons in serpents and some scouting Warwalkers with scatterlasers to deal with horde.